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 Post subject: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:48 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:52 am
Posts: 4
Location: Newport, NC
Although I've been an avid reader of the Hobie forum for over a year, I'm a newly registered member with problems furling the TI sail.

My TI is a 2012 and I've enjoyed it very much, but have had trouble furling the sail every time I've been out on the water. Yes, I de-power the sail before trying, yes the main sheet and furling line are free, and no, the amas are not submerged. When trying to furl the sail, the sail seems to hang up on the first batten and my wife ends up going forward and manually turning the mast at the base to get the sail to reef.

I've sailed before and know the basics, but would appreciate any tips on how to simplify this procedure. It is very frustrating and occurs even in light winds.

Thanks,

Swimmer


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:21 am
Posts: 71
Location: DARWIN, NORTHERN TERRITORY, AUSTRALIA
G'day Swimmer;
Well I'll be buggered, you've covered just about all the 'hang-ups' that hinder sail furling. The only thing I can think of is the little white balls in the mast base. Are there any missing, like floating around in the mast base?
I had trouble with mine with-in the first couple of months and found that to be the problem. The screws in the top may be half a turn loose which is enough to let the balls fall out. IF this is the case, pick the balls out of the base and put them in their race at the top and tighten down all the screws.
Sorry I can't be more helpful matey...I'm surprised to be the first respondent, hopefully some of the more expert geniarii of the AI's very few foibles might join in.
Cheers from Vintagereplica. If it works okay...modify it anyway!


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2102
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Furling problems can also be caused by the furling drum contacting the mast bearing plate.
Check that you have clearance of a few mm between the two. Does the mast spin freely when not under load? Check that the furling drum has not slipped on the mast (the epoxy can fail) but more likely the V-brace may need adjusting to raise the furling drum clear of the bearing plate.
Some info here (about Page4):
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=44081


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1443
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
swimmer :
I agree with Stringy, that mast plate is the most likely culprit. I have had several TI's, and on all of them that drum that the furling line is wrapped around can easily slide up or down with just a light bump when handling the sail, It is held by epoxy onto the carbon mast, I have never had one rotate, but they all slide up and down easily if you bump them during transport. On one of mine I bumped it back in place and shot super glue into the joint, it seemed to help (once I got all my fingers free from the mast LOL). I don't advise putting any screws or anything into the carbon mast, as the bottom is a high stress area.
Hey one other thing I found on all my masts (when new) is that the joint in the middle (where the mast splits) tends to slip when furling the sail, knocking the alignment out between the top and bottom (making it harder to furl). I'm not recommending to drill any holes into the carbon mast (ever). What I did was allowed a little grit into the joint (between the two mast halves) so it's a little harder to spin, but you can still get it apart (if you ever had to).
With mine even when everything is working properly, I still have to help it manually once in a while.
Hope this helps
Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:52 am
Posts: 4
Location: Newport, NC
I have not experienced any white balls being displaced - none running loose in the mast base. Once the weather warms up, I will definitely check the mast bearing plate and mast plate. And I too have had the two piece mast slip out of alignment.

Will check out all the recommendations and report back. Really appreciate the help as I want to get my TI ready for the water when both the air and water temps improve. Right now it's a little nippy.


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:52 am
Posts: 4
Location: Newport, NC
Ok, water/wind are just right and I finally have some time to play.

I checked the furling drum/mast plate spacing as suggested above and I'm ok there too. Then I even let some tension off the first and longest batten. The mast alignment looks ok as well. (I've had to re-align the mast before.) Then I practiced letting the sail out and furling it on land. Seems now to furl ok (on land), but the sail doesn't let all the way out no matter how hard you pull - about 1/2 turn left on the mast. I can manually get out the rest, but not with the main sheet.

Maybe I do need to take the mast down and re-check the alignment. Can't believe the sail needs that kind of adjustment every time.

One more thought. I just noticed there are two sets of holes on the crossbar for the furling line crossbar cleat. My guide is located on the outer most holes. Looks to me that the inner set of holes just to the right of the mast would work better. Any comment?


Last edited by swimmer on Wed May 29, 2013 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2096
Location: High Point, NC
Okay, here's one more little trick. Yes, putting the bow into the wind de-powers the sail and should help tremendously, but there is an even better way.

With the sail sheeted in just taut, turn the boat straight downwind and then bring it over until you have the wind just slightly coming onto the starboard side. This will push the sail slightly to port and curl it in the same shape that it will take as it furls onto the mast. Now pull the furling line. It's almost like having power assist.


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:25 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9308
Location: Oceanside, California
swimmer wrote:
Can't believe the sail needs that kind of adjustment every time.


Furling is pretty basic and doesn't typically need any kind of adjustment.

Stops at a half turn? That is 99.99 percent deployed? The sail will fill with wind and unwind the rest if need be.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:28 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9308
Location: Oceanside, California
Quote:
One more thought. I just noticed there are two sets of holes on the crossbar for the furling line crossbar cleat. My guide is located on the outer most holes. Looks to me that the inner set of holes just to the right of the mast would work better. Any comment?


Yes, inner most position should be more in line with the furling drum and cause less drag when un-furling.

Mainsheet uses the outer cleat.

You can see both in the shot on the TI page: http://www.hobiecat.com/mirage/mirage-tandem-island/

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 1604
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Moving the furling cleat towards the centre is a backwards move in my opinion. This will put the right pedal in line with the cleat and will definitely get in the way. Your problem is not cleat placement.

I know you said there were no bearing balls in the mast base, but do you have the full 24 in place? There shouldn't be enough room to fit another ball in the race. My furling became really difficult as soon as any balls came out, so I would look to that as the prime suspect.

As for not being able to unfurl the sail fully, have you got enough furling line out? When setting up, I fully unfurl the sail (on land) BEFORE undoing the furling line of the drum. I then undo enough furling line so there is at least 8 inches coming through its cleat. I then connect this to the mainsheet with a figure eight knot. I then furl the sail ready for launching.. With this set up, I KNOW I will be able to fully deploy the sail, and also fully furl it when required.

Hope this helps.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 3:56 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:52 am
Posts: 4
Location: Newport, NC
Appreciate everyone's help on this - Matt, Tony.

Checked the balls and all are accounted for - no room to fit another in the race. I didn't think about if the furling line cleat was moved inwards being in the way of the pedals.

Again, could the tension on the batten have aggravated the problem?

Maybe it's just my technique, or my high expectations. In any case, I'm definitely going to keep working at it, as the boat is a lot of fun. Hopefully the weather will keep cooperating this week and I'll be able to check it out on the water.


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 1604
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
The batten shouldn't be the cause. It should easily wrap round the mast when you furl.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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 Post subject: Re: Furling the TI sail
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2761
Location: Kailua 96734
Swimmer, there are some great threads here about adding blocks and rerouting the TI furling lines (with solo sailing in mind).

We've done one such mod, and it works great. Doesn't take special skills.

Google the "Furling" threads and check them out.


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