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screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=49582		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  alarcas [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
Last two sailing adventures from ABISAL12 club were with problems because of that (one screw broken, another one unscrewed).
After that we notice that the new Tandem Islands are coming fitted with three screws (new plastic piece with three screws through hull) insted of just two.
Did you notice the change from Hobie?
Did Hobie advice about this update and improvement?

thanks
Author:  tonystott [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
I believe Hobie made the running improvement since the release of the 2012 model year, and I saw it posted here.
Author:  alarcas [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
tonystott wrote:
I believe Hobie made the running improvement since the release of the 2012 model year, and I saw it posted here.

Thanks Tonystott.
Do you remember where. I notice under Ti upgrades it say nothing about it.
If public and update done we were avoiding three accidents at the sea...
ABISAL12 club
Author:  mmiller [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
It is not possible to update to 3 screws from 2 since the hull would have been modified with a new insert to receive the 3rd screw. Be sure any replacement screw is the correct one from Hobie Cat. It is a special made one that is a stud and seized nut... higher strength stainless.

80390346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON
STUD 1/4-20 x 1" PH17-4 W/ NUT SEIZED
Author:  alarcas [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
mmiller wrote:
It is not possible to update to 3 screws from 2 since the hull would have been modified with a new insert to receive the 3rd screw. Be sure any replacement screw is the correct one from Hobie Cat. It is a special made one that is a stud and seized nut... higher strength stainless.

80390346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON
STUD 1/4-20 x 1" PH17-4 W/ NUT SEIZED

Thanks for answer ...

All our Ti´s hulls ( 2010, 2011 and 2012) are with three inserts for three screws. Only the last one from 2013 is with three screws.
Please confirm this and if the distance is the same to fit our kayaks with the new plastic part in order to fit the thirth screw.
Many thanks
Author:  stringy [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
The upgraded 3 screw transom has been around for a while. I saw one at my Hobie dealer about a year ago I think.
What hasn't been known though is that there is a stronger screw set available. :?
I have one of the first TI's which had the wrong length screws and I replaced them with cut down screws I sourced from the Hobie fit out kit.
So Hobie is recommending that the gudgeon screws are replaced with the above stronger screws in Matt's post? Much like the stronger V-Brace socket screw?
How long have these been available and are they available downunder yet?
I can't recall reading any info on this.
Author:  alarcas [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
stringy wrote:
The upgraded 3 screw transom has been around for a while. I saw one at my Hobie dealer about a year ago I think.
What hasn't been known though is that there is a stronger screw set available. :?
I have one of the first TI's which had the wrong length screws and I replaced them with cut down screws I sourced from the Hobie fit out kit.
So Hobie is recommending that the gudgeon screws are replaced with the above stronger screws in Matt's post? Much like the stronger V-Brace socket screw?
How long have these been available and are they available downunder yet?
I can't recall reading any info on this.



You are right and all of us are cutting those screws from the Hobie fit out kit to take on board as spare part.

Recently we (ABISAL12 club) have received the new screws (same as the one you mention). But when fit the new one do not forget ti fix the screws with any stuff to avoid the unscrewing (it happen to us the other day).
the question now is to know if all ti´s fitted with three inserts (and only two up and down used) are able to update to three screws system. Or may be Hobie replace the thirth middle one to a different position...
Author:  alarcas [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/38i8lbpaamqcf ... WA0001.jpg

This is one of our Kayaks with the three inserts...Why are we unable for the upgrade?
Author:  Jbernier [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
Like Matt said already. If your kayak only has 2 inserts that's all you can use - If your hull has 3 then you need the newer three hole gudgeon part # 88991094 (make sure you get the new stronger screws from your dealer - Matt listed the part number 80390346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON and they're shown in the catalog on page 48)

The newer boats have 3 inserts - this can't be added to older boats (or old AI's as they have a different rudder type) - it is done in the molding process and isn't something that a person can add after the fact - sorry.
Author:  mmiller [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
I would have thought that all hulls with 3 available holes should have the three screw gudgeon, but I'm unclear about the timeline and possible difference in the hardware.

Fyi... we also changed to a larger diameter screw at some point, to do away with the need for the special 17-4 stud version.

I will review with engineering and confirm.
Author:  alarcas [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
mmiller wrote:
I would have thought that all hulls with 3 available holes should have the three screw gudgeon, but I'm unclear about the timeline and possible difference in the hardware.

Fyi... we also changed to a larger diameter screw at some point, to do away with the need for the special 17-4 stud version.

I will review with engineering and confirm.



Many thanks Matt!

I confirm all of our kayaks have three insert(as you can see in the picture), but We don´t know if those inserts are at the same position ready for the upgrade. It would be very very nice.
Tomorrow we will confirm the positions with agains the new kayak we have with three screws system...

saludos
Author:  stringy [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
I'm a bit confused with Hobie's replies re a different diameter screw. I understand that a two screw transom can't be upgraded to three screws but are the upgraded stronger screws available for the two screw transom and if so what are the correct part numbers?
Author:  vilcoyote66 [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
Dear mmiller, thanks for reply.

I´ve just checked my TI serial #(US) HCCP2511K112 and it has three nuts (three available holes) in the hull... but it arrived from factory with the two holes gudgeon mounted.

so, ...May I contact with my local dealer, and ask for a free three hole gudgeon (part # 88991094) and x3 stronger screws (80390346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON) ?


Regards from Canary Island
Author:  mmiller [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
Initial response from the factory is a bit confused. They claim to have changed to the three hole gudgeon just this month. In my recollection this should have happened some time ago, but if the boat has the three hole insert.... tapped / threaded, you should be able to change to the newer gudgeon and 3 screws. One additional twist... there is a larger screw used at the bottom now. You need to confirm the size of the holes in the hull and then buy the correct screws to fit.

This is not a warranty upgrade / not free.
Author:  stringy [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: screws on rudder system ( hull fitted) fail quite often.
Talking with my local dealer they are not aware of any Hobie Technical bulletin regarding the upgraded transom screws. I went ahead and ordered the #8030346 screws which I hope will fit the 2 hole transom?
I'm pretty sure it was the 1/4-20 x 1-1/4 screws in the Hobie Kayak rigging kit that I cut to fit soon after I got the TI back in 2010. This being a metric country it's hard to source imperial threads.

Matt can you confirm that 2 hole transom owners should be upgrading to the 8030346 screws?
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