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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:16 pm 
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Just picked up a new-to-me 2011 Outback and the rudder control is very stiff compared to my Revos, almost too stiff to move. When the rudder control is moved towards the left, the rudder actually half resets and raises out of the water, requiring me to pull the "down" cable before attempting to steer again. I literally just picked this boat up and haven't had a chance to peek inside the hull yet to see if I can figure out what's going on, but does anyone have an idea of the cause off the top of their head? Thanks!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:38 pm 
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Are you locking down the rudder when you lower it (cleat the line)?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:18 pm 
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As Bob said, lock that rudder down, and then yank on it again from time to time in case the lines slacken a bit (the hull gets slightly longer the hotter the weather). Also, check the tightness of your left-right rudder lines. As they are attached to the rudder slightly forward of the plane of the rudder pin, one will go slack while the other goes tight when you turn. Adjust the lines so they are just tight enough to lie straight when the rudder is dead ahead, but can move a bit if you poke them. It is hard to describe in words, but if they are too tight, your tiller will be stiff to move, while if too loose, your tiller will had a "dead spot" around the middle where you are just taking up the slack.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:25 pm 
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That was a kind of famous problem on the TI's. Because the rudder was so big, if you search in the history on this forum you can find a fix that Hobie came up with that involved drilling a hole in the rudder and adding a bungy, that would be your last resort once you have tried everything else.
As suggested make sure your rudder lines are adjusted correctly first, if they are wrong this can cause issues. Next make sure the rudder goes up and down freely and easily, there is an adjusting nut in the center, it needs to be a little loose. Also take it apart and make sure it is squeaky clean inside, sand in there really causes problems. Don't use any oils or lubricants inside, just keep it clean, and when done each time flush the whole works with the water hose every time , as it needs to operate freely.
Once you have done all the above, it should work correctly. Hint, you have to pull that rudder lock way tighter than you might think. Make sure the harken cleat is clean and free of sand, they slip if they are all gooped up with sand.
To get the hang of it after pulling it down and locking it, just walk to the back of the boat and try to lift it with your hand, if the rudder pushes back and is loose there maybe something inside the hull tangled in the rudder up down line. I had a tennis shoe tangled in mine once inside the hull and the rudder kept coming loose.
Hope this helps
Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:35 am 
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I had not been cleating the "up" cable, no. I wasn't under the impression that it was necessary as I don't think I've ever used it on the Revos. At any rate that shouldn't have any bearing on the stiffness of the rudder control, correct? I plan on getting inside of the hull today to check out the cabling situation.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:14 am 
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But are you cleating the Down cable tight? Often people coming from earlier Hobie's or non-Hobie boats don't.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:30 am 
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You shouldn't need to cleat the up line at all, the up line only needs to be cleated on adventure boats since they eliminated the twist and stow rudders on them, if you don't cleat it up on the adventure boats it just falls back down. I'm pretty sure Hobie uses the exact same up down system on all their boats. You are correct the steering lines are separate from the up down lines, but if they are way too tight from hull expansion, this can cause binding in the whole works.
Hey when your digging around inside your hull, let me know if you find my other tennis shoe (lol)
Hope this helps
Bob

edit:
Yea what Tony said.... The up line is usually on the left side of the boat (usually labeled up), the down line is on the right side of the boat (usually labeled down, ( "those labels fall off easily, and may be missing, all mine are gone"). The down line has to be pulled very tight and cleated into the harken cleat right behind the down handle. So whenever the rudder is in the down position you need to cleat it down, when you approach shore, you uncleat the line before coming ashore (on your approach), and typically raise the rudder up once your too shallow to use it (this way you can still steer all the way in without risk of breaking the rudder).
The reason I mentioned adjusting your left right rudder lines, is they should be no different from your Revo, if the outback steers very hard, it's likely the rudder lines are way too tight. Basically if the rudder lines were strung in the winter, the boat grows about an inch or so between winter and summer, if the lines were strung in the winter, they will be way too tight once the weather warms up causing all sorts of problems.


Last edited by fusioneng on Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:05 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Just to clarify Bob's post, the "up" line is only cleated when you are not using an Island which has the new "straight up and down" rudder, and you don't want the rudder blade falling down (in this position the rudder looks a bit like one end of a Venetian gondola :)).

The old "twist and stow" rudder fitted to earlier AIs (and most other Hobie kayaks) just lay on the deck when not in use and didn't need the "up" line cleating.

As you can see, pulling the "down" line very hard is advice coming at you from all sides... the reason behind this is that the rudder blade (when down) has some area which lies forward of the rudder pin axis, and water pressure on this forward part partly counter-balances the pressure of the rear of the blade, reducing steering effort. If the "down" line is not cleated tightly, the blade can swing back slightly, so that the counter-balance area now ADDS to effort on the tiller rather than subtracts from it; a classic lose-lose situation.

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www.scenefromabove.com.au


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