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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:37 pm 
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I thought about buying the dagger board that comes standard equipment with the Adventure kayak, and using it with my PA to help with the tracking...I thought maybe I could somehow rig it to the PA's aft handle so I could raise and lower it as needed to assist in steering. I used to own a 16' HobieCat sailboat and the rudders were very long, allowing them a deeper bite in the water for better steering and at the same time, also to act as dagger boards to keep the boat on a straight course...I use my PA to fish in open bay or ocean waters, most of the time 2 or more miles offshore, and sometimes wind and surface currents bully me around, making it more difficult to keep a straight course...My problem is not knowing if the dagger board would be effective positioning it behind the rudder...Or if it would just interfere, making steering more difficult...Does anyone have any ideas of where the best position for adding a dagger board would be? Preferably someone with kayak and sailboat experience, or maybe a boat design engineer?
Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:30 am 
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Without getting in over my head, I don't see a longer rudder stopping side slip or helping with heading. It'll increase steerage which is already more than adequate on the PA. The PA rudder could be a little longer as I've seen it come out of the water in gusty winds. I'd think, one of the easier ways to accomplish better windward beating is to have a swiveling dagger board, or pair of them possibly using the side rails somehow. Wouldn't have to be heavy, it's not keel action for staying upright as much as it is for allowing better "into the wind" sailing.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:14 am 
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First... did you upgrade to the new steering drum (no charge)? That makes steering smoother / less twitchy.

A board placed aft of the steering would prohibit turning. The long rudders on the Hobie Cats are also for lateral resistance needed due to the large side forces created by the sails.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:35 am 
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Thanks for your advice...But I believe adding a dagger board would help prevent excessive side slip. Because of a kayak's shallow draft, it is easily pushed around by the wind and surface currents...Sailboats with keels or dagger boards don't have side slip near as bad as kayaks...

yakkingaway wrote:
Without getting in over my head, I don't see a longer rudder stopping side slip or helping with heading. It'll increase steerage which is already more than adequate on the PA. The PA rudder could be a little longer as I've seen it come out of the water in gusty winds. I'd think, one of the easier ways to accomplish better windward beating is to have a swiveling dagger board, or pair of them possibly using the side rails somehow. Wouldn't have to be heavy, it's not keel action for staying upright as much as it is for allowing better "into the wind" sailing.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:04 am 
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Thanks for your help...I have made a few changes to my PA...Yes, I did change to the new steering drum, but I haven't had the weather to test it yet. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks...I'm just thinking ahead in case the new drum doesn't work as well as expected...

You say the placement of a dagger board behind the rudder would prohibit turning? Then what if a dagger board is placed at the bow? I've been told that placing a dagger board at the bow would increase the PA's tracking ability...Would that location prohibit turning also?
Thanks


mmiller wrote:
First... did you upgrade to the new steering drum (no charge)? That makes steering smoother / less twitchy.

A board placed aft of the steering would prohibit turning. The long rudders on the Hobie Cats are also for lateral resistance needed due to the large side forces created by the sails.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:00 pm 
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"Thanks for your advice...But I believe adding a dagger board would help prevent excessive side slip. Because of a kayak's shallow draft, it is easily pushed around by the wind and surface currents...Sailboats with keels or dagger boards don't have side slip near as bad as kayaks..."

That's what I said...... dagger board.

"I'd think, one of the easier ways to accomplish better windward beating is to have a swiveling dagger board, or pair of them possibly using the side rails somehow."

Swiveling meaning up out of the water alongside when not needed... and swivel down into the water while sailing.

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Portsmouth, VA


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:57 pm 
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I'm pretty sure placing the board off the bow would cause the bow to turn more, not less. It has a tendency to track the bow left and right. I think you would need more steering corrections to keep in online. I suggest as yakkingaway has written... a swivel dagger along the rail or what is known as a lee board. More in the middle to aft-middle of the hull for better lateral resistance and a steering pivot point.

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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:11 pm 
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Thanks guys for the advice. Now that I have a better idea of where to place a dagger board/ boards...If the new steering drum doesn't work as well as expected, I have a back-up plan. I don't believe that it would be too difficult to experiment with...Whats the old saying?..."Plan your work, then work your plan"

If I decide to add the dagger board/ boards, and it works properly, I'll post some pics...I'll post some pics anyway of how I've rigged my PA when I unpack it for the start of spring. I've had some people show interest in seeing my rigging setup...

Thanks again


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