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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:36 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Michigan
You ask a good question, ELM, with regard to the durability of the velcro straps in repeated exposure to sand. I wish I could answer this but haven't worn mine in sandy conditions. I've only put them to use on rocks and they worked great. Also, at this point, I've only owned them for less than one full season. They are comfortable and look forward to putting them to the test next year. I'll be sure to press fit the velcro more securely to limit the amount of sand that can work it's way into the strap.

Cheers,

GR8 Laker


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:29 pm 
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GR8 Laker, do you wear your Caveman boots with drysuit or drypants? I am wondering about sizing. If I get the boots to fit with drysuit, they will probably be too big for wearing without a drysuit when the weather warms up. May be no big deal, as I have just been wearing simple water shoes during the warmer season anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:33 pm 
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Location: Michigan
JimMI,
I use a full dry suit and had the same question. I made a phone call and was told by Stohlquist reps that they run large and come in full sizes only. Because I wear a 9.5, I decided to order both size 9 & 10 and return the ones that I didn't want. I found they ran pretty true to size and the 9's were too tight when worn over the dry suit socks. I was also wearing socks underneath my drysuit. The 10's were a bit tight but not enough so that movement was hindered in any way. I tried them on without the dry suit and was able to tighten the velcro straps enough to allow for a snug fit. I didn't know if my feet might slip around when wet so I packed a pair of socks for my trip just in case and never ended up having to use them. The weather turned out to be quite warm and for most of the trip I ended up using flip flops, socks or no shoes at all unless I was headed for long trips over open water.
Good luck and I hope this helps in your search.

GR8 Laker


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Hi

Here in the Netherlands we fish half our season also with cold conditions. I tried a lot of different clothing in my kayak to fight te cold. For Norway and Sweden fishing they sell floatation suits over here. Those are not good. You can not move in those suits and the aren't comfortable at all in the kayak.

Don't know in Fahrenheid buth in Celsius it's somethimes below zero and the water is freezing into ice. Hope you understand the tempature in Celcius. In your profile I can't find where you live so don't know what rating you use.

The best option in my opinion is a sailing drysuit. Those are build to use during sport and above the water. Not the ones scuba-divers use. They are not made to move a loth. Also the surf Drysuits in Neoprene are no option.

Have a look at some brands around. I and a loth of friens of mine use a Code Zero drysuit from Gul marine. Bith there are several brands who sell those kind of drysuits. They are comfy in the kayak. If you puth more than one layer under it you'll be fine. The real problem with - 6 degrees is your feeth. I never had any problems wearing my Dryssuit, base layer and radiation undersuit. Besides my feeth. My bleeding stops in my feeth as soon as I hit the kayak during winter.

Bram Hullekes
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:14 pm 
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OK, good advice all around - I am convinced. I am ordering a Kokatat lightweight goretex paddling suit. I want to pickup the necessary underlayers at the same time, so I need advice on the base layer and insulation for cold weather. I have been told that polypropylene is best for base layer stuff, and fleece on top of that, with the drysuit on top of it all. I am aiming for fishing with max warmth at first ice breakup (air temp 25-45 deg F, water 32- F), with removable layers that will take me through through late spring (air temps in mid 50's-F / water temp mid 40's-F, and finally warm weather without the drysuit. Any specific brand-name recommendations from those with cold water experience? Do you keep the base layer on and forgo the insulation or the other way around as temps warm and you don't need both?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:47 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Rogers, AR
I came looking for information about how you guys fish in cold weather. All the information you put out was great.
I live and fish in NW Arkansas. Lots of water here, but all lakes not surf. I tell you that to say getting in the water without getting wet...even the feet is often easy enough, but there are lots of put in's that do require at least knee high boots. Ok, but here's what I was looking for. I went out late fall, early winter once. Had lots of gear on...I topped it all with a wind breaker Frogg's Togs suit. Everything was great "except" in less than 30 minutes of trolling, my feet were really too cold to continue, so I went back in and gave up fishing until now when I am about to venture out again in much warmer spring weather.
All of this is just jaw jammin I suppose, cause I think I might have found the answer.
Last weekend the FLW tour was here fishing on Beaver Lake (my primary water) and it was really cold...below 30 most mornings, and the wind was blowing too. So I managed to ask one of the pro's how they kept warm, especially their feet and he told me he takes a Hot Hands chemical warmer, and places one on top and one on the bottom of each foot along with his socks and he stays warm...at least warm enough according to him. Just FYI.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:17 am 
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Ron - Good idea. But you'd have to do it in such a way as to keep the warmers dry (ie - inside a deep boot or waterproof drysuit sock). They need oxygen to generate heat, so some degree of ventillation is also necessary. I have worn these inside a snowboarding boot and ice fishing boot in the past and not gotten a lot of heat out of them because there is very little air exchange inside the bottom of such boots. It may be differrent inside a dry suit with a loose wading bootie on the outside, though. Maybe I'll let you know in a week or two, when I take a shakedown cruise between the ice flows in order to tryout and refine my new cold-water system.

Anybody used these inside a drysuit before? Other foot-warming ideas out there?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Location: Victoria, Australia
I have tried the heat packs inside a drysuit and they work fine, however, I have not tried them for the feet, as my suit has ankle seals not boots or socks fitted (wish it did, cold feet are a killer).

I have heard Sealskinz dry socks are excellent at repelling water but I am not aware if they have a seal around the top or not. I am not sure, if the sock is fully immersed, will water get in around the top of the sock. If it does not let water in, then you could layer under them, as the key to warm feet, is "dry" feet.

Sealskinz have several different length socks, including one that comes up to the knee. My "guess" would be the longer the sock, the more body heat contained in the sock, and there for the warmer it would be. If you are wearing a neoprene wetsuit of some style, then the sock would need to be worn under the suit so the neoprene suit can still drain without filling the socks, which would happen if worn over the neoprene suit, again, the key being, keeping your feet "dry".

My biggest concern is; are you truly dress appropriately for a kayak? Are you dressing for an extended immersion/wind chill (once out) and protecting yourself from cold shock and hypothermia (which you should be), or are you dressing to be comfortable when "sitting on" and "getting on", the kayak only?
Two very different things, and if you are dressing for the first (extended immersion) then the rest are automatically covered.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Well, I got out onto the waters of northern Lake Michigan on Sat to try out my new cold water gear. I had to launch out of a creek that flowed into the lake because there is still too much ice piled up on shore for a beach launch. Air temp was about 28-F and water temp 32-F. I was pedaling around the last of the 6" thick ice floes as they blew in to form pack ice close to shore. Really nice.
Gear was as follows...
Baselayer: Expedition weight Wickers polyester longjohns and longsleeve top.
Intermediate layer: Kokatat fleece drysuit liner.
Top layer: Heavyweight Patagonia fleece pullover.
Feet: Thick athletic socks, plus Patagonia knee-length thick snowboarding socks.
Outer layer: Kokatat lightweight goretex paddling suit.
Head: Kokatat Surfskin balaclava.
Shoes: Stohlquist Caveman boots.
Hands: Glacier neoprene gloves.
With the exception of my feet and hands, this system performed incredibly well. My torso was warm, dry, not too hot or too cold, not sweaty, and the drysuit was plenty flexible enough for paddling, pedaling and casting. I found the neoprene and velcro straps on the glacier gloves restricted circulation and made my fingers cold, so I used them only when reaching into the water, otherwise opting for fleece gloves. My feet got cold and crampy after 30 min, causing me to stand and flex toes and ankles a few times (try that in another kayak!). I stayed out for about 90 minutes and thoroughly enjoyed the day. Next time I will try the HotHands trick between the layers of socks. Anybody ever try battery heated ski socks?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:42 am 
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Location: Victoria, Australia
That sounds like a great outfit, very nice.

Quote:
battery heated ski socks

To be honest, I had never heard of them until now, had a quick google and very interesting, even remote control heat adjustment and no wires. I would love to here how well they work. Possibly the best place to ask about them, would be a skiing/snowboard forum.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:57 pm 
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I could not get back out onto Lake Michigan today because temps have dropped below freezing again, and a steady northwest wind has blown pack ice across from Wisconsin and back into all the harbors on this side of the lake. The freezing temps are locking these ice sheets together again so I will have to wait a bit longer before I can get the PA out onto the lake. In the meanwhile I did get into some knee-deep rivers today (on foot, no kayak) fly fishing for steelhead. I was anxious to try the hot packs inside my boots and waders, since this may approximate how they would work in a drysuit + boots. I put on a thick athletic sock, then one hotpack on the top and one on the bottom of my toes, then another thick sock to hold everything in place. Then into my breatheable waders with built-in neoprene footies, then my nylon river boots on top of everything. This is probably comparable to a drysuit + boots. I found my toes uncomfortably cramped in the boots due to the hotpacks. Also, the hotpacks did not produce much heat at all since they did not get much oxygen. When I pulled them out after severl hours of fishing, they were lukewarm but heated right up in my pocket where there was more air available. Based on this approximation, I would predict that these would not offer much heat inside a drysuit + boot. I'll try them out for real as soon as I can get my PA out onto the lake again, but in the meanwhile will look out for other options to keep feet warm in sub-freezing temps. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:00 pm 
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Confirmed that hotpacks don't work inside a drysuit. I was finally able to get out onto Lake Michigan today, although I had to crunch my way through several hundred yards of 1/4-inch-thick new ice that formed overnight to do so. The PA has a good hull and cut a nice track all the way out, which I followed slot-car style coming back in. Anyway, I had hotpacks between 2 layers of thermal socks, inside the drysuit, covered by a water bootie. No noticable heat was generated under these relatively anaerobic conditions. The drysuit was wonderfully warm and comfortable. My only complaint is that I got sunburned on the backs of my hands and around the couple inches of my face that were not covered by neoprene. As any skier could tell you, just because it is cold doesn't mean you can leave your sunscreen at home.


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