Motorized PA, the wave of the future.

If you have no intention of selling or marketing it then whats the big deal.
So much for sharing and helping others. I think the video looks great but whats the point in sharing. If it is so simple someone(that isnt concerned about money) soon will figure it out and probably share the big secret anyway.

I agree - what's the big deal? I made something for myself, others saw it and wanted it, so I offered to share it with a handful of companies that deal in this type stuff (including Hobie). Thus far they're either not interested, have no money, or have more pressing items on their plate. If you have a beef about not being able to buy this system, take it up with them, not me.

In the meantime, I'm happy with my system and use it every time out. I'm not looking for anything else and have never had any intention of putting my system on the market. I already have a job.

If you want to power your PA you have plenty of options without browbeating me about my system. The Evolve is an exceptional system. The BassYaks system seems to be perfectly fine.

Now I'll help you by sharing this revelation - even easier and less costly than the above systems, you can remove your PA's rear handle, bolt in a section of 2x4 or aluminum angle stock and hang any number of outstanding trolling motors from that. You can extend the handle with a flexible tube and operate it from your seat. What could be easier or less expensive?

The BIG DEAL Tom is that you showed off and lead everyone to believe that your flubber mobile would be offered to everyone to buy or maybe build. You tried to interest Hobie and (according to you) others without showing it to them because you were afraid they would steal an Idea that you won't patent. You also say that it would require a $50k mold for injection molding when you seem to have built 1 for next to nothing ........ When you were given the opportunity with an honest company that has a reputation for innovative products and a distribution network, you appear to have talked them out of it ....... etc.

This forum is for sharing ....... if you were sharing you would build some and offer them for sale or allow others to build them. You were ego boosting and not sharing ........ and you don't understand this ...... That's the BIG DEAL ......

Excellent article Electric Engines on Kayaks

http://www.kayakfishingmagazine.net/art ... look-.html

Tom Kirkman :
Let me start off by stating I have no desire whatsoever to ever own a PA, or any type of fishing boat ( I don't fish at all). I also have no interest whatsoever in your mounting system for the PA, I could care less, and certainly have no interest to start manufacturing any of your stuff or stealing your ideas.
However I have been working for quite a while now on trying to develop an experimental electric propulsion unit that I can enter into the EC challenge (hopefully next year). Just to prove it can be done, I have no desire to market anything, this is just for my own knowledge and enjoyment ( a mental challenge for me).
The reason I am reaching out to you is I have been calculating my power requirements (for about a year now) and need to supply 300 watts of continous power for a period of 65 hours (It's a 300 mile race and would take around 65 hrs @ 4-5mph average).
According to the Torqeedo 1003 published specs when running an 18Ah battery I can get 2.5 to 2.8 miles distance with a run time of 35 minutes at 4-5 mph. I am assuming performance would be slightly less from other motor brands.
The reason I am asking is, you stated on page 4 of this thread you are propelling your PA at 6mph for several hours at full throttle, with a 25 lb battery (10 times better performance than anything on the market today). Would you be willing to share with me some of your motor specifics (can be a PM). Currently the best I can come up with powerwise is to get 1/3 of the race (100 miles) distance utilizing the Torqueedo 1003, and some custom stuff (ie.. solar, wind, etc) and am at a dead end on my design. I would be doing the race on my TI if I can solve my power consumption problems. I am assuming the power required to propel a PA and a TI is roughly equivilent.

Thanks
Bob

Memory Maker,

Luther hasn't told me that I talked him out of it - what did he tell you? He said he didn't want to invest in something that wasn't protected by patent, intellectual property rights, etc. I understand his position.

I have shared a great deal on this forum, a great deal. But I am not obligated to give every idea I have to you nor does withholding anything make me, nor anyone else, a bad guy. You're not entitled to anyone else's ideas - when someone does share something with you, you've been done a favor. And when you insist that someone must share with you in order not to be labeled as selfish, you only make it less likely that others will share with you in the future.

I do not have time to build any for sale and the time required to make them one-up would require a price that I doubt anyone would pay. I have offered the idea to others so they can build them, but so far they are not prepared to do so. Take that up with them, or just pretend it does not exist. That way you're no worse off than you were before I built my system.

............

Fusioneng,

Maybe. I've been informed that my power package may have more value than the motor system itself.

I have no idea if more or less power is required to power the TI over a PA.

Gee Tom ........ that's funny since none of his products are patented .....

Anyway ....... thanks for Sharing ........

Hopefully someone will step up and pay you what you want so the world can benefit from the battery and motor efficiencies that no one else has been able to and we can formally recognize your genius ...........

Fusioneng, the eVolve prop is rated at about 45% efficient, and may be typical of off-the-shelf electric props. I see you have been experimenting with different pitches and have obviously made good progress to date.

A friend of mine (retired mechanical engineer) has developed an excellent pedal powered prop system. Having successfully built everything from hydroplanes to human powered hydrofoil craft, he is working on another HP hydrofoil presently. His prop kayaks are very fast. You and he would seem to have a lot in common.

Steve currently employs modified model airplane props, spliting them to make them fold (for clearing weeds), and has an excellent knowledge base in this area. He is a great guy -- has no problem sharing ideas. If you wish to establish a line of communication with him, let me know.

Memory Maker,

I am stating exactly what he told me. If you don't believe it, please call and speak to Luther personally. Here's his phone number: 434-392-3233

I haven't run around asking people for money. As I have said many times, I didn't develop this system in order to market and sell it - I developed it for my own use. Others have requested it, and I have made it available to several manufacturers. If you're upset because you can't obtain this system for your PA, please take your complaints to them. They're in that business, I'm not.

Tom by no means do I think you are a bad person. If YOU cant sell the idea and it will be expensive to produce, dont think anyone going to steal your idea to market and sell maybe 20-30 of these.

Roadrunner:
Your friend sounds alot like me, I've designed and built, racing hydroplanes, helicopters, and airplanes as a hobby. I even crashed my gyrocopter once (not fun). I designed and built a set of hydrofoils for my TI but could never get to lift speed (about 8 mph) because of increased drag from the foils (a little harder to do than it appears with a 400 lb sailboat with only human and sail power). Of course I could have put a big old motor on but I am trying to do everything I can do to think outside of the box with my designs. Part of the hobbie is designing, then building all this cool fun stuff, then trying it out on the water and see what it does. I try to design and make all my own sails, and pretty much everything else thats what it's all about. I have no desire to ever sell anything it's just a hobby after all.

I already have respect for your friend with him having designed and built HP foil boats successfully.
I'm a little dissapointed that most everyone else is chasing the same solutions when it comes to propelling a boat (no new or good ideas out there). I have no desire to cover my boat with PV solar, or add 1 or 2 hundred pounds of batteries to my boat, or to spend $3,000 dollars trying to buy the latest and greatest. There has to be a better way.
My personal design challenge is to propel my TI for 300 miles nonstop in under 65 hours (average 4-5 mph). Anything I come up with has to cost under $500.

I'm an inventor/engineer as my profession and have no need or desire to market anything related to my hobby. I just mess around and have fun with this stuff to occupy my own mind. I imagine your friend messes around with this stuff for the same reason and is just having fun like me.

Bob

JacksonH

I haven't tried to sell it nor attempted to have it manufactured. Nor would it be very expensive to produce for anyone that deals in this sort of product and has the ability to do injection molding. Companies have approached me about it and the rest is up to them.

I think the best thing for me to say at this point is this: My system is a farce. It does not exist. The videos you've seen of my PA under power are actually nothing more than a Pro Angler being towed by a porpoise, or a buddy's bass boat, your choice. It's all been a joke. I do not have a power system for the Pro Angler. It does not exist and therefore you cannot buy it nor can anyone manufacture it. It was too good to be true and you what they say about things that seem too good to be true...

So now that my system has been exposed as a complete charade, you might as well go buy an Evolve, a Bassyak system or hang a trolling motor from the stern of your PA. It would appear those are your only 3 choices. I'll stick with my trained porpoise.

.............

Fusionegn,

To do what you want to do, you're going to have to be more than efficient - you're going to have to employ some sort of energy that can renewed while you're underway. I can only think of 3:

1. The Wind
2. The Sun
3. The motion of the ocean

#1 brings you back to a sail and the wind, though it may be fickle at times. They all have the ability to provide power, but it'll take a lot of thought on how to harness them to do what you want to do. Perhaps a combination of all of them.

Indeed, you sound like two peas in a pod. http://www.people.com/people/archive/ar ... 62,00.html Steve also rebuilds historic airplanes for the Aeronautical museum as a volunteer. Here is one of his hydrofoils:


Your innovative contributions and sage advice on the forums here exemplify the spirit of sharing and helping each other -- I'm a huge fan and like many others, greatly appreciate your generous contributions. I'll be watching your participation in the EC 300 with avid interest.

Sorry if that was a little off-subject. Aside from that, I've enjoyed this topic -- for some reason (and I can't put my finger on it) reading it reminds me of one of my favorite stories, The Emperor's New Clothes. No doubt Hans Christian Anderson would find it greatly entertaining as well! Of course I'm not suggesting any relationship.

Tom is being facetious of course, and is well known locally as someone that has shared a ton of unique kayak rigging ideas to local kayak fishermen. As far as his "trained porpoise" I can say that several of us have seen his system and its a unique idea. I would never have come up with anything like it and could not duplicate it if I tried, not and have anything that looks or works worth a damn anyway. If anyone ever does sell any similar "trained porpoises" I will be first in line to buy one. Its sweet but not sure I can afford the menhaden feed.

As far as sharing goes, I called the Coca Cola company last week and asked them to share their formula with me. They refused. Bastards!

Now my question is, I bought an Outback a month ago. How do you power a OB with a motor? From my observations Tom's "porpoise" will obviously not work on the other Hobie kayaks without a major redesign so I want to come up with something that does not require a huge amount of drilling or mods to the OB. Any photos or ideas will be appreciated. And if you do not wish to share, thats fine with me. Whats yours is yours.