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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:36 pm 
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Hey guys sorry for the mis-communication. It is called the stealth serpent system. they have a website and it looks like motorguide or minn kota motor that fits in the mirage drive opening. They are a austrilian outfit. It cost $620, then you add on shipping to the states ( mine is TEXAS) another $200. Check it out. I bet someone in the GREAT U.S can make this. They take the mirage drive plug and swap out the plastic tips and reinforce it with a stainless steel pin then drill a hole to put a stainless steel pipe to run the motor shaft thru. They then reinforce the top and bottom of the plug with more stainless still and make a stopper on the bottom to keep from raising the motor to high and hitting the prop agianst the hull.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:36 am 
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Quote:
The fact is, the future of kayak fishing is with powered boats and the Pro-Angler is something that many if not most owners would indeed power if they could do it for very little money (some will spend a fortune to do it, but not most).

Disagree.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:26 pm 
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Interesting concept. Looks like he's adapted a mirage well plug for the motor mount. At the risk of getting flamed, I'll mentioned that I thought about this approach when I first saw the Mirage well plug when I unpacked my PA, but I didn't think the motor head would fit down through the Mirage well. Never thought about putting it through on an angle. Pretty clever. The modified well plug/mount seems to be the key element of this system. If you could buy just that, or modify it yourself, you could DIY.

I would mostly use a motor to reach reservoir coves that are too far to peddle to - 4-5 miles each way, then use the mirage drive when I get to the coves. For this type of use, I prefer the GeauxFish/stern mount approach because you have full use of the mirage drive and the motor. You don't have to pull the motor in and out to use the mirage drive. And don't have to stow the motor when you pull it out. The Evolve system, as far as I know, seems to suffer the same limitation - can't mount the motor on the PA rudder, just on twist and stow rudders. But, the Evolve is more compact and would be easier to stow.

Interesting discussion.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:47 pm 
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gotcha wrote:
Hey guys sorry for the mis-communication. It is called the stealth serpent system. they have a website and it looks like motorguide or minn kota motor that fits in the mirage drive opening. They are a austrilian outfit. It cost $620, then you add on shipping to the states ( mine is TEXAS) another $200. Check it out. I bet someone in the GREAT U.S can make this. They take the mirage drive plug and swap out the plastic tips and reinforce it with a stainless steel pin then drill a hole to put a stainless steel pipe to run the motor shaft thru. They then reinforce the top and bottom of the plug with more stainless still and make a stopper on the bottom to keep from raising the motor to high and hitting the prop agianst the hull.


I thought I mentioned this system on this thread, or another one but maybe not. I thought it was an interesting system, but then, didn't like a couple of things on it. One being the depth of the motor. Although it would be more efficient at a deeper depth, that means to me that I'll have to pull it any time I want to go ANYWHERE shallow, or on shore. With a rear mounted system, you can put the nose on shore and still may have the ability to keep the motor in the water.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:32 pm 
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Did some searching and found LightPerformanceWorks kayak motor systems - out of Utah. (Not sure if it's been mentioned on this forum. Did a search within the forum and didn't get any hits.)

It's a pivoting transom mount system that appears to be designed around Minnkota 34# motor - $300 for the basic system - just add battery. Add optional electronics package for $350 for extended battery range. Not perfect for the PA, but an interesting option. Anyway, at least it's NOT $2000 and IS available with in the USA.

Anyone have any info/experience on this system?

Cheers!

Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:57 am 
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I think that after reviewing multiple sites and motor system, that Team Geaufish (tgf from now on) :lol: Has the way I would do mine. :idea: You can use what ever motor and thrust. Hell you can even have remote control. I was informed by the men from bassyaks the the system can be tied into the optional hobie handle( the adapter handel for changing to the right side of the pa ) instead of having to use foot controls. My pa is still a couple months out. I am in the same boat as curtanz :lol: :lol: :!: Putting my extra money aside. Mean while i am gathering all the info i can get to make the best fishing system. Keep up the good work all. Hey Tom, any clue to when you stealth system is goig to released to the members of this forum?

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1988-92

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:28 pm 
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I made asystem quite like Stealth Serpent. I used the mirage drive cassette with a White Snake 18lb thrust trolling motor. The drive is small enough to fit in the opening. It took a afternoon to make and works fine. it would be nicer if you could fit a larger trolling motor in easier but I cannot find a motor that is easier to use. I used a pvc pipe over the shaft and a collar and also used two steel plated on each side of the mirage drive cassette for strenght. I wish I u Stainless plates. I will need to change it in the future.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:07 pm 
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gotcha wrote:
My pa is still a couple months out. I am in the same boat as curtanz :lol: :lol: :!:


That aint funny :D As for Tom giving any more details, I think we're SOL for info because he's said all of it. Read the thread a few times and you'll get it. It's not the system he's looking at a company to develop. The system is already there. It's a specialized part, which needs to be injection moulded. That is what he is talking to companies about, not the propulsion system. At least, I think I'm on the right track there.
From reading the threads as well, it almost sounds like a mounting part which utilizes the rear handle....but all of this has confused me so much that I'd have to read through again to verify.
My thought has always been, the PA has a rudder....so all you need is forward/rearward propulsion. I think after that, everyone has their own way of adapting a mounting system. Tom's just happens to be fully concealed/confined under water. This is where my thought of the Minn Kota engine mount motors came in...

Image

With a special adapter, which is what I THINK Tom has made, you could use any trolling motor, which would reduce the cost significantly. My thing is where he says the entire system, including battery, weighs 32 lbs....A typical 12V battery weighs 40. The other confusing part is the duration of propulsion the system is able to keep of several hours....They say the common formula is for every pound of propulsion, you use an Amp/Hr of battery. Maybe he has a smaller battery, and 20# motor :D

I also think that TGF has the best system, as far as KNOWN ease of installation, adaptation, and performance is concerned. Could be a little cleaner in setup, but that is my personal obsessive compulsive preference :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:43 am 
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Very interesting post this has been. I have been following this for a little while now and just had to finally chime in.

SeTex Drifter wrote:
My thing is where he says the entire system, including battery, weighs 32 lbs....A typical 12V battery weighs 40.


It depends on what type of battery you are talking about here. Yes a SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) battery that has high current capacity is very heavy. I can make an INSANELY powerful battery at 12V with massive amounts of current that comes in at way less than 40lb. You just have to have a little desire and know how. Granted...it is a cost to weight ratio that you begin to play with when talking about batteries. Just for example though...@ 12V with 3 Amp/hrs a piece you could make a bank of Lipo batteries (say 15) that has around 40 Amp/hrs and only weighs about 12lbs. Price tag approx. $230. If you add more batteries you get more life (more cost too). But if we are simply talking about power and longevity on the water the more Amp/hrs you have the longer you will be able to run. IMO an even better option (more efficient that is) would be to use a 24V system. More power for the same amount of current. For what Tom is talking about I'm willing to bet at least half the price is in the battery to save weight (at least it would be if it were my design).

I haven’t looked into a motor for my PA mainly because I don’t want to have to get it registered here in FL. But with a well thought out design there are some days and some spots that it would be really nice to have. As far as propulsion goes for a kayak I can’t say what is powerful enough??? Maybe someone with a trolling motor can attest to 30lbs of thrust being overkill (or needing more than that)...but if you know what trolling motor you are going to use then design the battery around it to give you the performance you desire.

I like the mount in the pic CurtnAz. Looks like a good starting point that allows maximum flexibility in your design.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:15 am 
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I'd love to see a jet boat type of propulsion ............ like on the new surfboard ........... mounted on the bottom and flush with the bottom ......... now that would be the ultimate ......... operate in the shallowest of waters with high efficincy ......... also remote control handheld or wrist strap ...... even for the propeller type .........

sure wish I could find the components ready made .........


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:29 am 
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chanman wrote:
Very interesting post this has been. I have been following this for a little while now and just had to finally chime in.

SeTex Drifter wrote:
My thing is where he says the entire system, including battery, weighs 32 lbs....A typical 12V battery weighs 40.


Granted...it is a cost to weight ratio that you begin to play with when talking about batteries. Just for example though...@ 12V with 3 Amp/hrs a piece you could make a bank of Lipo batteries (say 15) that has around 40 Amp/hrs and only weighs about 12lbs.


I thought about that after doing some research, and found ample amounts of options, to include 2 wheelchair batteries that would also give you about 25 lbs. of weight and 40 A/hrs....which also got me thinking, the cost. Tom says $500.00. You can purchase a Minn Kota 30 lbs thrust motor for $100.00 or less....which leaves quite a bit of room for batteries, controls, etc. Then I looked at his video again (the 2nd one) and noticed something which I hadn't paid any attention to before. The rear handle. All along I was under the assumption that he removed the handle, placed a bracket in between, and installed the handle again. Not the case. It's clear he has something clamped around the handle. My guess is that this clamp, is what he is having produced or whatever; because the motor shaft goes down from there. You can clearly see it from the cavitation it creates. Not to mention that he says it can be removed/installed within minutes. (actually, I think he said 10 seconds)...so I come to think....perhaps a hinged clamp, which has some type of metal buckle system (like a metal band) to quickly attach, and release the system.

Anyway, I'm sure Tom is getting a chuckle out of all of these assumptions and guesses :D He better be careful though, we'll all onto him now :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:43 am 
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Jet drives have been in use on kayaks for several years:

http://www.mokai.com/

It's a great system - the best really, in terms of being unobtrusive and powerful. You can run these anywhere, over rocks, logs, etc. Takes a bit larger motor to operate but if your goal is to go long and fast, it's the ticket. I understand they can make about 14MPH currently with the small Subaru motor.

I have thought about buying a Mokai for doing long river stretches without needing two vehicles or a shuttle. Just motor up several miles and fish back down. As good as the jet drive is, however, the boat itself isn't in the same class as our Hobies in terms of fishing user friendliness. I'm sure they could be rigged to do the job, but it's the motor system, not the boat itself that is the selling point at this time.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:08 am 
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Hey ....... thanks for the info Tom. That looks interesting but I had an electric in mind for the stealth qualities ......... also remote wireless control attached to you ......... great for safety ...... fall out of the boat and it can be steered back to you or automatically stop if it gets more than a 50 ft away .......


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:08 am 
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Location: Atlanta, GA.
The Stealth Serpent has it's issues like every idea for powering the PA. The motor is too small to waste your time and money on, and where do you put this thing when you're running in shallow water, or landing?? It's made by WHO??

So were back to the simple fact that powering from the rear handle gives the most flexibility. It gives you the whole front to stand with nothing in the way.

The Light Performance Works idea is getting closer, but still not ready for mass PA production. Any system the allows you to also have the Mirage Drive in, is a
big plus.

Registering the Kayak in Georgia cost $15.00 for 3 years, and 5 minutes registering online. Lets not use (don't want to register my Kayak) as an excuse any more!!!

Here are a few more mounting options for a rear motor. This looks like my original design, but I also wanted to tie into the back handle screws as well.

Image


Image

This would be a clean setup for those with a personal obsessive compulsive preference. My mount cost under $20.00 to make and I've been powered since DAY ONE, this one would be around $100 welded.

My next video will show the turning radius of the PA under power, steering with the rudder only.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Although my system does not rely upon any sort of clamping device, there is no reason why such a thing could not be made to work on a PA. The handle is certainly sturdy enough to handle the power of most 15lb to 40lb thrust motors.

You also have two good molded in nuts there, so you could even remove the rear handle and remount a flat handle/plate type assembly that would serve as a very good "transom" for most standard trolling motors.

I suspect that when Hobie comes out with its own system, it may incorporate that sort of thing. Just guessing, however.


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