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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Maybe I'm alone on this but reading all these threads just sends an irritating bug under my skin because I don't have a PA!!! Ahhh....

Anyway, the why oh why....It seems to me like the channel lock idea on the Wilderness Systems Kayaks allows for an unlimited opportunity of accessorization; and why hasn't anyone put a channel lock system on the PA? Like on the side boards? Or even better, it shouldn't be too hard to take a router and carve out the star board for a system like that. Also, how about this for a venue....replace the grab rails with a channel....still have a grab rail, and then some.

I just got to thinking about that with all the talk of a SI transducer, and where/how to mount it...etc. Maybe someone already has, and maybe they'll post pictures :D


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:44 pm 
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Here's my initial attempt to mount my
Humminbird 798 SI transducer to the
stern of my PA...

Image

I fished this setup all Spring and it works okay.
With me and my gear, the water line is at the
4-inch mark in this photo. So the transducer is
a few inches too deep right now. Since this is my
first prototype, I used the transom mount plate
provided with the HB798. It's screwed into the
1-inch acrylic rod which the RAM mount grabs.
It's quite solid, but it also presents a 2"x3" flat
surface to the water flow (you can't see it in this
side view) and isn't hydrodynamic.

Although this mount doesn't affect my speed or
steering that I can notice, it makes a gurgling
noise at about 2.5 mph and faster. Therefore,
I plan to improve the mount soon as possible.

I'll make a dedicated arm using more scrap
acrylic I have laying about. Eliminating the
RAM mount and HB transom plate easily permits
the transducer to run at the optimal depth. I
can also shape the arm for optimal flow. Finally,
I should be able to incorporate a raise/lower
pull cable to make launching and beaching
more convenient.


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:55 pm 
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Nice setup... I'm not too familiar with the requirements for a transducer and whatnot, but when you say that the setup you have sits too far below the water line, how does that affect it? I would think that where you have it (just a couple inches below) would be ideal; but like I said, I don't know :)

I remember seeing a setup somewhere where the person rigged their transducer similar to yours, but had it mounted off the bow instead.

The main reason I was thinking of the channel rail is from seeing a Hobie Revo with that Frogg Gear Liberator (or whatever it's called) mounted on it.


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Found it....

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=34107

Pretty slick setup as well I think. Although, with enough R&D, anything is possible...


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:23 am 
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Location: The Netherlands
I like how ocean kayak has designed their scuppers to hold the transducer. i think Hobie can figure something out like this for the future.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:32 am 
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Have a look here for some really great suggestions, the best is Scotts video with the anal bung :lol: :lol:, great bit of kit and there is no large flat like HsvToolFool has with his set up causing gurgle etc.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Posts: 1992
Location: High Point, NC
The channel system on the WS products was wholly my idea. I discussed it with then owner Andy Zimmerman one day at his factory in Glenola, NC., not long before he sold the company (Confluence Watersports).

My idea was a molded in T slot along the length of both sides. Then, you'd have a proprietary base to fit and lock in that slot which would hold any number of accessories including rod holders, anchor points, fish finder mount, etc. My thought was that it would allow a guy to outfit his boat without drilling holes in it and also allow him to move stuff around as his fishing conditions changed.

I named it the "Plug and Play" system.

The replaceable starboard pieces on both sides of the PA give you the same ability, somewhat. Just get a couple extra and rig up for different fishing situations. Swap out the boards and you're good to go.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Pretty cool idea Tom....are you getting any royalties from it :) As for the starboard on the PA, I like the idea...and all of my opinions are based solely off of observation, but it looks to me like the side boards are too far forward of the chair, which would inhibit the use of them to some degree for those of us who have some carry on luggage as well :D I would think that placing them further aft would allow for better use (up to and including the using of a channel). Obviously, that would probably inhibit the use of the rod holders, but sacrifices have to be made somewhere.

As an idea for maybe a future PA, would it be possible to increase the width of the side bulkheads, and implant/create some threaded taps where one could position the side boards wherever they wanted? This would also allow the positioning of the rudder handle. Either that, or maybe a better idea would be to increase the width, add the channel, and then you could feasibly do whatever you wanted with the sides....whether it be sideboards, rod holders, grab handles, etc.


P.S. If Hobie uses this idea....I want royalties :D


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:51 pm 
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CurtnAz wrote:
I'm not too familiar with the requirements for a transducer and whatnot, but when you say that the setup you have sits too far below the water line, how does that affect it?

The sonar features works perfectly with the
present transducer depth. Better too deep than
too shallow. But I'm confident the side scan
will continue to work well if I move it up two
inches or so.

The above setup was just a quick protoype
to learn if the HB798 SI would work well in
a kayak and if the stern mount would be the
best location for me. Both are true.

ELM wrote:
...the best is Scotts video with the anal bung, great bit of kit and there is no large flat like HsvToolFool has with his set up causing gurgle etc

The bung mount is very cool, but it's basically
the same setup as mine. Incorporating the stock
transducer plate was the quickest way I had to
get the job done. I wanted to play with my new
toy! I could have eliminated the plate by making
a more complex acrylic adapter rod. No bigee.

The metal bung mount shares the same drawback
as my the stern mount prototype: the transducer
can't be lowered or raised from the seat. When
launching, I must lock down the RAM before
entering the kayak, rotate the kayak so the stern
is in deeper water and the transducer is clear,
then enter the kayak. The process is reversed
when beaching. It's a minor nuisance, but I hope
to develop a raise/lower cable that works like the
Hobie rudder mechanism.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:02 pm 
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HsvToolFool wrote:
The above setup was just a quick protoype
to learn if the HB798 SI would work well in
a kayak and if the stern mount would be the
best location for me. Both are true.

The bung mount is very cool, but it's basically
the same setup as mine. Incorporating the stock
transducer plate was the quickest way I had to
get the job done. I wanted to play with my new
toy! I could have eliminated the plate by making
a more complex acrylic adapter rod. No bigee.

The metal bung mount shares the same drawback
as my the stern mount prototype: the transducer
can't be lowered or raised from the seat. When
launching, I must lock down the RAM before
entering the kayak, rotate the kayak so the stern
is in deeper water and the transducer is clear,
then enter the kayak. The process is reversed
when beaching. It's a minor nuisance, but I hope
to develop a raise/lower cable that works like the
Hobie rudder mechanism.


I think it's a great setup....and as I've said before...all of my opinions are observation based. When I have a PA, I'll be able to provide more. I do wonder a couple of things and maybe you can clearify. The SI transducer in general shoots a side image out 90 degrees from the boat, and for approx. 200 ft I'm told. Wouldn't this put the fish behind you once you've gone over, or with the size of the PA, does it not really matter?

Second, I wonder if the front handle could be modifed in a way to accept some type of spring loaded rotating bar (almost like a mouse trap). Where you could have the transducer out of the water for travelling/non-fishing, and then pull a release cord like the rudder is setup with, and it would spring the transducer into the water. Another option would be instead of a lever type, have a bar which is spring loaded. When it's store upright, it would be near the bow, then pull a release and the bar would shoot down into the water. This would also allow for some adjustability while pedaling.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:54 pm 
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CurtnAz wrote:
Wouldn't this put the fish behind you once you've gone over, or with the size of the PA, does it not really matter?

With *any* fish finder, you are beyond the fish
or structure's actual location by the time it's
visible on screen. The sonar beams shoot straight
down in a fan shape. The display scrolls new
"sweeps" in from the top of the screen. So you
view a history of what's behind the boat, regardless
the transducer's mounting location. The objects
visible at the middle of the screen are more
than 12 feet behind the transducer.

That said, the HBird SI provides a cursor which
can be moved around the screen. You can mark
an area of interest with the cursor, and the
electonics automatically compensate based
on your present position so that the marked GPS
location is correct. But you won't see the item
on screen again unless you once again pass
over (or near) the marked location.

CurtnAz wrote:
Second, I wonder if...

Thanks! I have two ideas along those lines,
but at the stern. I will use a cable and spring
system to raise/lower the transducer remotely.

For all the tinkerers here, a neat resourse for
inventing gadgets is...

"507 Mechanical Movements"
by Henry T Brown

Every motion you can imagine which can be
created by a gear, cam, or lobe is in this book.
It's a great place for ideas.


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 7:36 am 
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Yes the bung is very similar, the main point I was making with it and trying to help you, is that the mount plate on the transducer it self, instead of being on a vertical plane in your case (and you expressed your mild dissatisfaction), is parallel with the water surface on the bung mount.

You are right about having to set them from the water and it being a nuisance for you. I have seen one being tried out, where it was mounted on the rear carry bars and he had a 6" lever extend straight up with 1/2 of a 6" pulley attached off the top and pointing out to the rear, but so the bottom of the pulley extended below the handle. He then had two cords, one direct off the top running back to the seat, the other followed around the 1/2 of a plastic pulley, under the grab rail and then back to the seat also. When I saw it, it was sitting on a trailer and it seemed to lift and lower it ok and needed to be tidied up, it also needed a buffer for it to position the right angle when he pulled it down. Have not heard how he got on with it and how it worked in the water.

The link to AKFF in my earlier post, and the discussion on that forum, has a few different fully removable sounders with the transducers mounted off the sides where they can be lifted and lowered by the user. I am not sure, yours being side image, whether the kayak on the surface and the transducer off the side, if it would have to much interference? I am guessing if it is deep enough (the transducer) then, No. Just how deep is the question?

Thanks for the link to the book "507 Mechanical Movements
by Henry T Brown". Something I meant to get 6 months ago and forgot the name. I am going shopping!!! :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:08 pm 
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CurtnAz wrote:
Maybe I'm alone on this but reading all these threads just sends an irritating bug under my skin because I don't have a PA!!! Ahhh....

Anyway, the why oh why....It seems to me like the channel lock idea on the Wilderness Systems Kayaks allows for an unlimited opportunity of accessorization; and why hasn't anyone put a channel lock system on the PA? Like on the side boards? Or even better, it shouldn't be too hard to take a router and carve out the star board for a system like that. Also, how about this for a venue....replace the grab rails with a channel....still have a grab rail, and then some.

I just got to thinking about that with all the talk of a SI transducer, and where/how to mount it...etc. Maybe someone already has, and maybe they'll post pictures :D



How is your rear mount ducer working out for you?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:09 pm 
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Location: Bluegrass Region of Central KY
Look at this topic for some ideas:
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=40525&p=163867#p163867

This is the track I use:
http://www.yakattack.us/Products/Products.html

Also, Lowrance makes a scupper mount for their transducer:
http://www.lowrance.com/Products/Marine/Paddlesports/Transducer-Kayak-Scupper-Mount/

And, in cooperation with RAM and Tallon, a really cool, unobtrusive flush mount for a fishfinder/GPS integrated mount (watch the video at the bottom of the page):
http://www.tallonsystems.com/view/tallon_elite_socket_for_lowrance/

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:05 am 
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I'll be doing something similar to this on my Pro Angler. I mounted "Gear Trac" from Yak Attack on my Outback and it worked great. You can see the review and the installation on my blog.
http://northtexaskayaker.blogspot.com/

I'll be placing the trac on the PA sideboards as soon as I can.

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