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 Post subject: Let's Suppose...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Location: High Point, NC
I don't like to second guess Hobie - they seem to hit a lot of home runs. I've remarked more than once that they "get" the fishing part of kayaking.

But it's fun to speculate. Regarding the new PA12, the fact is it's a Pro Angler. So now a guy has a choice between 12 and 14 foot versions. The total number of PA's sold may not be many more than if they just offered the 14. No doubt, many folks that were going to buy a 14, will now buy a 12. So the 12 and the 14 compete with each other.

On the other hand, let's suppose, that Hobie had done something completely different than anything else they currently offer. I have a Jackson Kayak Coosa. It doesn't track worth a damn (good in rapids, bad on longer flat sections). But the width, the seat, everything else about it make it a great shallow water river boat. It has replaced most of my other river kayaks. Suppose that Hobie had introduced something similar, but with a Mirage Drive and twist and stow rudder. Suddenly, you have a craft that is different from both the Pro Angler and the standard Hobie kayak class (Outback, Revolution, etc.). Something nobody, including Hobie, currently offers.

I have a Pro Angler 14 footer and thus don't really have any need for the 12 footer - they're too close in features and weight. But if I could get a Jackson Coosa with a Mirage Drive and rudder, I'd already have an order in.

Just thinking out loud.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Suppose...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Like where the mirage drive is even with the hull when pushed forward, so the bottom is smooth, for rivers? In the 12ft range? I think I know what you are saying. The PA14 is the ultimate fishing machine. Hobie can make the River Angler12. The other fishing machine. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Suppose...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:02 am
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Location: Central New York
Is the Pro Angler that bad in rivers?

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Suppose...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:57 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
I hear what you are saying Tom, but I still think the Outback could do with a little tweaking to make it a bit more rough water friendly. And maybe a more comfy seat and better rod storage - or is this starting to sound like a PA12 :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Suppose...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:28 pm 
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MrGreen wrote:
Is the Pro Angler that bad in rivers?


I won't even run my PA in a local river, I also use a Jackson Coosa for the shallow river runs. Even the Coosa gets stuck in shallow riffles and I have to power through with the paddle all the while the bottom of the Coosa is scraping. I would only imagine if the fins were up against the hull on a PA it would still hang up and possibly damage the fins and or masts in skinny water. I think it would be too hard to remove the fins and try to paddle a PA through skinny water.
Is the Hobie Outback close to the same size as the Coosa? The Coosa is an awesome fishing machine for rivers, not so much for lakes.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Suppose...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:16 am 
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The Coosa is a world apart from the Outback or Revolution. The width, the seat and seat height, etc., make it far more suitable to shallow and/or fast rivers than either of those. It's sort of a kayak "hybrid." If you put a Mirage Drive in a craft like it, you'd have something easy to paddle, optional for use with the Mirage Drive, a rudder so it'd track well (with or without the drive unit) and a seat and seat height that rivals the PA series. It would be a totally different category for Hobie. Almost like a cross between the PAs and the standard Hobie kayaks.

But again, this is something to knock around. I'm sure plenty of PA 12's are going to be sold.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Suppose...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:22 am 
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I suppose the reason why Hobie decided to introduce the Pro Angler 12 is similar to the reason why they introduced the Revolution 11.
Trying to get that last X% of the market share. Also since the Pro Angler 12 is much more than just a shrinked down Pro Angler 14; I think a much improved Pro Angler 14 is around the corner.
Just doesn't make sense to have to maintain inventory for two different types of seats.
They already had to create new molds for the 12, how much more effort would it be to ask the engineers to go ahead and update the mold for the 14?

If I were a betting man, I'd say that in the next 3 or 4 months we'll be hearing about a Pro-Angler 14 with the Vantage seating and a price point that is +$200-$300 relative to the 12.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Suppose...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:38 am 
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Hey Tom do you think they will update the 14 with the molded transducer scupper for Lowrance I've been waiting for this feature for quite some time and find it strange that they would put it on the 12 and not the 14


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:09 am 
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Where I live, I can be on/in 3 rivers in minutes, a half hour or and an hour.

All three are impacted with tidal flows in their last 4-5 miles. Up past those points of final tidal impacts, a Mirage yak probably wouldn't be good. A Walmart yak would be about all I would want to try my $'s on. A Quest might be a good alternative if you didn't have to go back up stream.

None of the three rivers would be safe after a hard week of rain when the river levels can go up 10-20-40 times normal level.

Even in the less rapid and calmer lower river/tidal areas, a yak much longer than 12' might be a problem re turning radius and other tight manuvering.

I have been collecting intel re yak fishing for stripers on two of the rivers. The stripers during the day time are abandoning the main channels and heading into flats, natural and man made flood control flats during the high tidal impact and leaving before they get stranded during the low tides. Some guys are doing bush/reed busting during the high tidal times to get into areas where they can cast and catch and release the stripers.

Some fishers have sold their bigger striper boats or stored them due to the cost of gasoline and the lack of stripers in the main river bodies. They are now using yaks to get to where the stripers are hiding and feeding. Both fly fishers and casting/spinning guys are in this new trend.

The Outback and 12' PA should be good yaks for the above. The only problem with the Outbacks might be the wind/waves in the afternoon making the trip back to the launch sites more like a damp/cold Disneyland ride.

Last but not least, as those in control of access to our rivers become more anti human and anti fishers, continue to restrict access to the rivers. Some of my Spey buddies are looking/thinking about Hobie Mirages to get them upstream in N Cali and SW Oregon waters and drifting back downstream and casting from anchorage or putting the bow of the yak on the rivers edge and casting from the yak with shorter Switch rods. The Revo 11 might be a good yak for these guys. They are not looking at yakking the rapid areas, but the river flats to use yaks to get to were they can cast to the fish.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Suppose...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:32 am 
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Without getting into too much in the way of legal issues, here, I can tell you that you have a legal right to access any navigable moving waterway in the U.S. in a non-motorized craft. In fact, you cannot legally be denied access to such a waterway.


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