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 Post subject: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:06 pm 
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We've got two Pro Angler 12's. One is a 2012 and one is a 2013. The rudder handle on the 2012 turns at about a 90 degree swing either way and the rudder blade touches the hull at it's max. The 2013 turns at about a 45 degree swing either way and the rudder blade clears the hull by about 7/16" at it's max. Any ideas why this is and how I can get the 2013 boat to have more rudder angle? The rudder adjustments under the black lid made no difference.


Last edited by dregsfan on Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:11 pm 
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Thank you for posting, I knew I could not be the only one that had this problem. I just attended a paddling event where there were two other PA12s that had the same problem and one demo PA 12 that the rudder was turning correctly as you mentioned. I did bring this to the attention of the dealer where I bought my Hobie. They are trying to find a way to give me the full performance I payed for and expected when I bought it. Right now my Hobie will not turn at all to the right if there is a slight breeze from the right side of the kayak. I will keep you posted as I find out more.


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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Location: vero beach, fl
while we do pay a premium for our hobie products, at the end of the day, we must accept they are rotomolded plastic with a tremendous degree of allowance for error. no two rolex watches keep the same time, no two plastic hulled boats will track the same. of course if there are adjustment errors or inherent flaws with the product it must be addressed, but honestly, there is only so much room for correction in some cases.
to assist in the issue in the meantime, there are other techniques that can be used to help get going in the right (or left) direction. im sure this is elementary, but turning the rudder all the way full in either direction and adding forward propulsion may not turn the boat right away. if one pedals a turn or two and closes the mirage drive fins close to the hull, this reduces the affect of fins in being a rudder and allows for a quicker turn--especially when starting from a dead-stop. as i said, this is probably elementary for you, but it is an example of some techniques that can help in manuvering.

cheers.
drew

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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:40 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
There are only a few things that can inhibit the rudder from turning.

Loose control lines (Tightem them)
Un-even control lines (Adjust Them)
Control arm hitting inside (Bend the arm to clear an obstruction or move the obstruction [Foam?])

Getting more swing in the rudder is not always a good thing though. Too much and the rudder is simply a brake.

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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:09 pm 
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uno mas wrote:
while we do pay a premium for our hobie products, at the end of the day, we must accept they are rotomolded plastic with a tremendous degree of allowance for error. no two rolex watches keep the same time, no two plastic hulled boats will track the same. of course if there are adjustment errors or inherent flaws with the product it must be addressed, but honestly, there is only so much room for correction in some cases.
to assist in the issue in the meantime, there are other techniques that can be used to help get going in the right (or left) direction. im sure this is elementary, but turning the rudder all the way full in either direction and adding forward propulsion may not turn the boat right away. if one pedals a turn or two and closes the mirage drive fins close to the hull, this reduces the affect of fins in being a rudder and allows for a quicker turn--especially when starting from a dead-stop. as i said, this is probably elementary for you, but it is an example of some techniques that can help in manuvering.

cheers.
drew


Thank you for your suggestions, If this turning issue was just a slight difference (like a second or two off on a watch) I would not even worry about it. But it takes me two and sometimes three times the area to make a turn under the best conditions than what was shown on the promotional videos and demonstrated by the demo model that was assembled correctly. Being in the cultured marble business, I understand something about manufacturing flaws and I do not expect anything perfect. I just would like my kayak to work the way it was demoed on line and by the demo model at the dealer. The majority of the fishing I do is in areas that require me to be able to make tighter turns than what is possible right now. I’ve investigate something blocking the turning arms or handles on both sides (from inside the hull) and there are no (foam) obstructions that I can feel or see.

Here are some videos that inspired my purchase and show the correct turning radius.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-SOxVPi ... re=related

Shows tight turning and a 90 degree handle angle at 8:30-8:31 of the video.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=j7Z ... =endscreen

Shows rudder turning enough to touch the hull on full turns to right and left when assembled correctly at 2:05-2:10 of the video

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... CDgVc&NR=1

Shows a tight turning ability of a pro angler when assembled correctly. 2:18 -2:30 of the video.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Last edited by Marble Man on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Location: Amelia Island, FL
You have to be moving to get the PA to turn.


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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:21 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
There are only a few things that can inhibit the rudder from turning.

Loose control lines (Tightem them)
Un-even control lines (Adjust Them)
Control arm hitting inside (Bend the arm to clear an obstruction or move the obstruction [Foam?])

Getting more swing in the rudder is not always a good thing though. Too much and the rudder is simply a brake.


Thank you for your reply, I've tried all three suggestions. I was hoping there was a piece of foam blocking the turning arm and it would be a very simple fix but there was no foam in the way. I'm going to email some pics of the handle at full right and left turn so you can see how short the range is. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

MM


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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:37 pm 
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islandspeed2001 wrote:
You have to be moving to get the PA to turn.


No offence, I know the kayak has to be moving to turn. When some PA12 yaks rudders turn all the way to the hull and the handles turn 90 degrees and mine don't, there something else going on.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:24 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Can you shoot photos inside the hull for both turning directions as well?

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:05 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
Can you shoot photos inside the hull for both turning directions as well?


You got it! Pictures are on the way.

Thank you, MM


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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:42 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
Can you shoot photos inside the hull for both turning directions as well?


Matt,

Thank you for your quick response to my turning limitation problem.
I’ve forward your email to my dealers tech who will be doing the warranty work. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that this will give me the full range performance that I seen on the promotional videos.

Thank you again and I’ll let you know if it does the trick.

Sincerely, MM/Ruben Torres


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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:25 pm 
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Happy to report that after sending some pictures of the inside of the hull to Hobei, the engineers identified part of the problem, they found that I had some bent parts. They also offered a solution for the short turning radius. By eliminating a rod, this should get rid of the stops that cause a short radius. All is covered under warranty. I'll post the final out come for anyone with the same problems.

Later, MM


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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:35 pm 
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I'd like to thank Bob from Southwest Kayaks for making the adjustments that now allow my PA12 to turn on a dime!

What a difference!


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 Post subject: Re: PA12 turning radius
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:43 pm 
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Another reason we buy Hobie!

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