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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:41 pm 
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I took delivery of two 2015 PA12s in Oct 2014. It was at my dealer, 500 miles away at the Florida gulf. My wife and I camped there for a month and used the kayaks just about every day. Back at home the kayaks were stored for the winter and I just now have taken the tarps off the kayaks and begun looking at some of the issues to see what I can do about it. This is not a big deal. I plan to do all the work myself. I just wanted some ideas from the group here and Hobie concerning any materials or parts that may be helpful.

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Before leaving the gulf, we both noticed some difficulty deploying skeg and rudder and also some difficulty operating my rudder, like it had a restricted turning range. When I first tried to operate the skegs and rudders this Spring, there was some reluctance for the fins to drop on their own when released. I could, however assist them down with my hand as the boats are on a stand.

Let's look at the skegs first. Both boats have similar issues to varying degrees. After removing the rear rudder access plate, I see the skeg deployment rope has apparently cut through the protective grommet and become trapped between the grommet and the hull.

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At the other hole, there is no grommet, and the rope is cutting into the hull.

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As the rope keeps going to the skeg, you can even see some wear on the hull bottom as the rope turns the corner to go to the skeg. The wear is not as severe here, but it would be a bad place to have a hole in the hull.

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As for the rudder, the rope is slightly wearing on the protective grommet and also the non- grommet hole, but it is not as severe as the skeg situation. My concern with the rudder is the path the rope takes. On one boat, it is under the rudder cam.

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On the other boat, it is set in the rudder cam which provides some resistance to rudder turning in one direction. I don't know which path is correct.

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It is too early for me to jump to solutions, but I would like to throw out a few ideas to promote discussion.

1. It appears that a better grommet is needed as one has failed. Perhaps a harder plastic or metal? Since rope travel in the grommets is usually skewed hard to one side, it would be possible to have a new grommet with a slit in it to allow insertion onto an already roped situation. The slit could then be oriented opposite the rope side.

2. Some grommets may be needed where there is now no grommets in the current design.

3. The current black cable rope appears to be a pretty efficient plastic saw. If a smoother, less abrasive rope is available that is still nylon or polyester based, I have the tools to weld it to the current rope end to end without an increase in diameter so I could just pull the new rope through the system perhaps. I have not studied it, but it looks like it may be difficult to work inside the hull.

Thanks to the group and Hobie for any ideas.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:44 am 
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This is definitely looks as if there are some engineering improvements that need to be made to the design of the rudder and skew systems on the new PA 12. As you suggested, the grommet materials certainly appear to not be protecting the hull as well as they need to..

I wonder if the amount of tension on the ropes plays a factor in this as well?

I wonder if the new PA 15 has the same design?

Gladdly


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:20 pm 
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Location: East Texas
I noticed the same thing on my skeg today when it wouldn't drop free.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:04 am 
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After you figure out what your going to do i would advise putting some white grease in those areas. Mash it in to the rope where the rope is rubbing...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:48 pm 
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Matt,

I would think this would definitely qualify as a warranty issue. I realize the OP is 500 miles from his dealer but that doesn't change the fact there is a problem.

Any comments on how to prevent this issue for other new PA models owners? I'm especially concerned as I plan on picking a new PA 14 this week. The damage documented here could make me reconsider that purchase. I do not want to see a new kayak, like I'm about to purchase, being cut up by a rope in what appears to be normal, designed operation.

Gladdly


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:10 pm 
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I seem to be in the same position, I was planning on upgrading my 2014 PA 14 to the 2015. This issues has me concerned. I'm certain Hobie will be all over this but it does leave the consumer with the hazzle of confronting a warranty issue.

Looking forward to seeing the Hobie solution. Really had my heart set on the new PA.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:54 pm 
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I really hope this isn't a common problem. I have a new PA12 being delivered this week. Silly to think that a $3,000 kayak has a simple rope cutting through the hull. I won't be very happy if I have to deal with the same issue. I don't have a Hobie dealer even remotely close to me.

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2015 PA12


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:41 pm 
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Very surprised no one from Hobie has commented on this damage in any manner at all; even to inform that it is being looked at or discussed by the design and engineering folks.

I have been pleased with my 2014 PA14 even though I have only been able to use it a couple of times; so much so that I have decided to purchase a second unit in case my wife, a family member or a friend would like to go along.

That being said, Hobie charges premium prices for their products. To have an issue like this out there and not have commented at all to the original post does not seem to be the type of customer service Hobie owners expect or have seen in the past.

Please chime in to give some reassurances to the original poster and to other prospective buyer such as myself that this issue is not being ignored. Like I stated earlier, I do not want to buy another kayak only to have it cut itself up with a rudder/skeg cable.

Sorry if I have offended anyone in any way, it is not my intention. I am concerned about this issue; $3200 and tax is a lot of money to me. I was to pick up my 2015 PA 14 tomorrow. I will put that purchase on hold until I see a response from Hobie on the matter.

I must admit, if I were the original poster and had spent close to $7000 six months ago and had this damage I would not be pleased.

Gladdly


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:25 pm 
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This has concerned me quite badly. I called Hobie this morning and talked to a rep in the fishing department. I asked him if he's heard about the issue and if it has been addressed. He told me he has heard of the problem, but said it hasn't been addressed yet. He transferred me to a Hobie engineer and I left a message on his voice mail. I haven't gotten a call back yet.

I then called Austin Kayak. Their customer service is top notch. I'll leave his name out of this post, but the AK rep told me that he wouldn't even be able to give me the number of 2015 PA's they have sold, and as far as he knows he has only heard of two customers with this problem. He told me that most of the issues come from improper installing of the rudder system. I assumed that it was shipped installed, but he said that it isn't, due to safety and protection of the system while shipping. He has seen customers who are in such a hurry to put the PA together that they forget to add grommets or don't install the system correctly. He also told me that mine should have metal grommets, which tells me that Hobie has addressed the problem.

I'm not insinuating at all that Hobiefan42 did a poor install, so please don't take it that way. Clearly you can see in his photos that the rope cut right through the grommet. I'm wondering if he bought his assembled or if it was shipped. Is the ropes and rudder system really that different from the 2014 to 2015?

I should be taking delivery of my PA12 tomorrow, so I'll update this when I see what hardware is included. If it has rubber or plastic grommets, I think I'll see if Hobie will send metal ones, or go down to the local hardware store to see if I can find metals ones that will work. I really appreciate Hobiefan42 for bringing this issue to light. I think I'd be beyond furious if I were in his shoes. I too am surprised nobody from Hobie has replied about this.

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2015 PA12


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:10 am 
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Cory5129,

I am relatively sure that this is factory assembled. I watched my dealer unbox/unwrap the boats and all I recall is that most of his time was spent assembling or adjusting the mirage drive.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:08 am 
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Yes, it is being reviewed. We don't get into every forum and every topic or comment on all, so not having us reply is not unusual if we have no real answer. That doesn't mean we are not looking into it. Always best to give your dealer feedback and that gets to the warranty / tech support department directly.

There may be specific issues that exacerbate this issue. How often do you actually deploy and retract, because it was not thought to be an issue during all testing here. Does excessive and constant load on the up line compress and cut the plastic? Does trailering over bumpy roads cause enough motion in the board to cause it? Lots to look at.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:55 am 
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Thanks Matt,

I can provide more information in my case:

1. The only use period I have had for these kayaks was for the month of October in Carrabelle FL. I got them from a dealer in St. George Island, FL. They were not transported during that month, but kept on the waterfront campsite. Used mostly every day, only used skeg during longer trips, less than 10 times. October temps in Carrabelle not as bad as summer.

2. Transported 500 miles on top of F350 Ford truck only using paved roads.

Let me know if there is anything else you need or want me to check.

thanks,


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:15 pm 
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Location: East Texas
My dealer is in Nebraska and I am in Texas. how do i even go about getting this looked at. Can i just call Hobie?

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2015 Hobie ProAngler 14'
~let pure air and sunshine invigorate you~


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:27 pm 
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NoBoundaryKayaker wrote:
My dealer is in Nebraska and I am in Texas. how do i even go about getting this looked at. Can i just call Hobie?


Contact your (any) dealer by phone or email. They can forward information to our warranty department.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:02 pm 
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Matt,

Thanks for commenting. It is good to know the issue is known and is being looked into

I called my dealer in Indiana regarding this issue and my concerns. HOBIE was contacted and I was called back. My dealer has assured me there have been very few issues with the new model PA's and stated Hobie has been phenomenal in regards to making things right when the need arises.

Thanks again,
Gladdly


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