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 Post subject: Stablizer for the PA -12
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Has anyone used the Hobie sidekick on their Pro Angler? Are there other commercial stabilzers

that work? I see many that are home made but would like to check out what is available.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:29 pm 
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Location: High Point, NC
The PA is so stable (on flat water) that I can't really imagine needing sidekicks (which make it more unstable on rolling water).

I don't want to assume anything out of hand. Why do you feel you need sidekicks on something as wide and flat as the PA?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Hi Tom:

I built your PVC trolling holder and it works great. Thanks for the work you did on bringing this around.

Well to answer your question, the 40 pound battery I placed on top and to the side, moved when

I went to bring a fish in and I turtled for the first time. Needless to say, after many years in my Outback,

I am hesitant about lack of stability with the added weight behind me.

Bonjoe

PS: I thought I had it tied down well enough. It was still with the kayak when I rolled it over.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:58 pm 
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I guess I can see that. I wonder if there is some way to get the weight down lower, below deck perhaps? That would help a great deal.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:05 pm 
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...... Do you really think stabilizers makes it unstable in rolling seas ......... Every tri hull I've been in is more stable as well as all catamarans


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:20 am 
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With the flat bottom on the PA I think it usually rides like a piece of plywood laying on big water. Any big waves will cause to PA to stick with the wave. It will not "roll" like a normal kayak. By adding the stablizers, I would think that this would only be a further problem :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:36 am 
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Location: Oklahoma
Hi Bonjoe,

I have added a set of Hobie ASA outriggers to my pa12. Had to modify the crossbar to fit the pa12, but the installation is clean and makes it easy to add or remove the outriggers. There is a post somewhere in this forum with photos of this type of mod. The outriggers add more stability to the pa12. I do a bit of wildlife photography and the outriggers give me more confidence that I won't dunk my camera equipment. I haven't used them on rolling seas, so can't address that. I've used them on waves that were coming over the front of the craft and survived well, but I avoided waves from the side as much as possible. Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:09 am 
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Actually, a trimaran is the least stable craft possible in rolling seas. The boat will attempt to conform to the water surface - if that surface is rolling, the boat will be rolling with it. A log moves up and down in rolling seas. A sheet of plywood rolls side to side.

In Jim Brown's excellent book on Trimarans, he mentions that Trimarans often capsize, but not due to being blown over, simply by getting crossways in rolling seas (he also mentions that they rarely sink, however).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:26 am 
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I made a set so I guess I'm going to find out .......... I thought it would be more stable ...... after all, the outrigger canoe and the cats have been used to cross the roughest seas for thousands of years .......... The Hobie sailing ones are used for fishing all the time waaay out in the ocean around Australia and Hawaii ........ and those are big seas ........

If you are right then I guess I'll be using them for sight fishing on the flats .......


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:12 am 
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More stable when? On flat water, yes. That's called primary stability. On rougher water no. That's where secondary stability comes into play.

If you're going to be on mostly flat water, it won't be an issue and may even do what you want. On rolling water, watch out.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Cats and Tri's are more stable than monohulls, but can still capsize/ turtle. Its all about Weight Distribution and Center Of Gravity (CG). The CG of the PA is where the seat sits. When loading anything heavy such as a battery, it should be as close to the seat and in line with the center of the PA as possible, unless you have something the same weight as the battery loaded on the opposite side of the PA for balance. Front-to-back balance is also important. The PA's were designed for most of the weight to be situated behind the seat. If you load the front hatch storage area too much, the PA will follow it's natural tendenacy to submarine because the PA moves through waves, unlike most kayaks that float over waves. That translates into a wet ride.

The higher the seat sits above the hull, the more "side-to-side" unstable the PA becomes. If you plan to stand when fishing, stabilizers and an "H-Bar" would be good accessories.

When anchored, you should try to point the PA's nose into the wind or direction of the waves. You want to try to avoid being hit broadside by the waves because that can lead to turtling. When moving toward a destination in rougher water you should move directionally in small angles to the wind and waves (similar to tacking and jibing with a sailboat) for the smoothest and safest ride...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:47 pm 
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Curious as to why you have a 40 lb battery on your kayak? Trolling motor I assume??


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:15 pm 
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How about simply securing the battery so it doesn't slide across the deck? :?

Cheers,
Graeme


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:28 pm 
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I have had the Hobie Sidekickers on both of my PA 14's since I got the boats last June. I use them every time i'm out, even in calm water. Do I need to, no. But it sure makes a difference in how it feels with them in place. I'm a big boy with a lot of upper body weight (yep, I'm fat :D ). Even my 26 year old, 190 lb nephew likes to have them in place. Especially if he has the seat in the upper position.

Now, I've had my PA 14's out in Lake Michigan a couple of times now with the Sidekickers attached. For me, I wouldn't want to go out there without them. This last time, the wind kicked up on us and it got really choppy, really quick. Once i got back into the calmer waters of the South Haven Michigan Channel, I noticed the kayak was leaning. What had happened was the plastic plug-in pieces that are epoxied into the aluminum tubes came loose and one of the sidekickers rotated to the "up" position while the other remained in the down position. Upon investigating, I found that all 4 tubes had come loose, 2 to the point that they were falling out of the socket. The epoxy just doesn't stick well to both the plastic and the aluminum. I re-epoxied them and this time I drilled through and put a #8-32 SS Bolt through them so they cannot turn. Hopefully, this should do the trick. Now I just need to figure a good way to keep the socket tube from rotating in the plastic Hobie mounts that hold the whole thing to the boats.

Image

Other than this little problem, I am very happy with them. Being able to deflate them for storage is a big plus.

Just be aware that the stock Sidekickers package doesn't fit the PA's, The socket tube is just too short. I had to purchase an additional tube and make a longer tube. You can see what I did here:

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=48669

You will also see here how I have my batteries mounted so they cannot move.

Hope this helps,
Marty


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