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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:49 pm 
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207 is a good choice. Use it for the entire process, that way if you 'burn through' the yellow won't show through. Graphite only slows the uv degradation, not the blush.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:22 am 
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Thanks for the help Surf City. I now notice the 207 product includes UV inhibitor. I will use it for the whole process.

I had no luck with posting pics using the Img button in the post editor. May have something to do with the URL I used (Google Picasa). How does one imbed images in the post, like the earlier pics of EPO's refinished by Genmar Star? I would like to post before and after pics along with other informative pics. Also cannot figure out how to send this question to forum admin.

Thanks to all.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:21 am 
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Image URLs cannot be dynamic - you can usually tell by a "PHP?" in the URL, followed by a string of numbers/letters. There's no way to for the forum to interpret that code.

The URL must also end with one of the acceptable image file extensions - .BMP, .GIF, or .JPG


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:06 am 
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I see. Well, any way to imbed the pics in the post, like Genmar Star did?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:09 am 
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Before picture of one of the EPO's

Image

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Last edited by ScotsSailor on Sun May 01, 2011 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Quote:
This is the URL: http://picasaweb.google.com/11497637155 ... 7277055842 with the before picture of one of the EPO's


Image

URL for actual image: http://lh6.ggpht.com/_sA5vamRnNrE/TCtJU ... G_2489.JPG


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:29 pm 
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Thanks hobieokc. Not sure how you did that. I did find a similar path/URL when I right clicked the image on the web page and selected Add to Favorites (Win7). Is there an easier way?

Update: Figured it out and posted pics in lieu of just url's

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Last edited by ScotsSailor on Sun May 01, 2011 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:50 pm 
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The picture below depicts my "tiny bubbles" problem. :( Using West Systems (West) 105 resin/207 hardener. I have tried rolling with foam roller, West roller, cutting up West roller and pushing it on and my latest attempt, with the least bubbles, foam brush, after very careful slow stir of the mix. Yeah, hard to believe, this is the best result so far, and I think it had more to do with the slow stir of the mix, to start with fewer bubbles in the mix.

I have lately been very careful to mix gently, to mitigate bubbles in the sauce, but still get some. I get a lot of them throughout, if I just stir away. I noticed that when I did some light fairing work and added west 404 filler, creating a fairly thin fairing compound (catsup like), I got 95% fewer bubbles in the finish. Should I add it to the finish coat? If so, to what consistency?

I have also applied with rudders hanging and rudders laying level, with similar results. I am in Tampa, with temps about 85-90 degrees during application (if that is even pertinent).

Any helpful ideas would be greatly appreciated. I have now sanded out bubbles at least four times :!: (last only needing 120 grit for the job). I need a nice finish coat at this point.

Image

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Last edited by ScotsSailor on Sun May 01, 2011 6:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:20 pm 
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You have to keep rolling as much as it takes. As you are rolling you can lighten up on the pressure and you should be able to get rid of the bubbles(I use the small foam roller from Lowes, or Home Depot). You can also tip it off by dragging straight down with a foam brush. I then wet sand between coats using 320. The final coat I wetsand with 420 then 600. I usually end up doing three coats.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 pm 
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One thing to try is to use a slow hardener and see if the bubbles will rise out of it while it dries

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Thanks for the suggestions.

I have tried to roll them out with a foam roller, but perhaps no more than a dozen or so strokes, so perhaps I need to try that again, with more strokes.

I have tried to push them out with both a West roller, cut and held by hand (not rolled) and a foam brush, both to no avail. The only way I can push them out is with a hard plastic applicator, which gets rid of the bubbles, but results in an uneven coat, that once again must be sanded out and is worse than the very small bubbles.

West 207 hardener is one of the slow hardeners, but thanks for the suggestion.

Those little bubbles seem to need at least 120 grit to get them out effectivley with a random orbital sander. I seem to have a solid base, with no fibers showing (they did at the onstart of the project - see prior posted pics), but I need a couple finish coats.

Shout out to SurfCity - any ideas?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Hi,

Tom is on the correct path .....

You need to slow down the curing of the epoxy so that the bubbles can completely "out-gas" .... so you need to use the slowest hardner possible if it is 85-90F when you are appling the epoxy.

I believe that you can use less hardner to slow down the curing process .... the epoxy will harden eventually according to past discussions w/ the guys at Gudgeon ..... I would think you want the epoxy to be as "runny/thin" as possible so don't chill the epoxy to slow the curing time .... but since you are not using the final coating for "strength" you can play w/ the curing times by reducing the amount of hardner and make it really slooooooooooooooow .......

Now if you are a over-achiever like me ....

Studies have shown you can not get your "blades" too smooth .... so 200grit, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000grit and now you can get 2500grit too ...... then buff w/ polishing compound (not rubbing) appling water and continue buffing until all the polishing compund is gone and you have only a wet buffing pad .....

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:17 pm 
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Harry Murphey wrote:
believe that you can use less hardner to slow down the curing process .... the epoxy will harden eventually according to past discussions w/ the guys at Gudgeon ..... I would think you want the epoxy to be as "runny/thin" as possible so don't chill the epoxy to slow the curing time .... but since you are not using the final coating for "strength" you can play w/ the curing times by reducing the amount of hardner and make it really slooooooooooooooow .......


Not true. With polyester/vinlyester you have a little flexibility with curing times but epoxy you need to be pretty spot on.

I am usually using west as well and with one pump of each and a tablespoon of graphite mixed well I can do one side of two rudders at a time. I have to roll quite a bit ,alot more than you are doing.

There is no gain ,except in your mind wet sanding past 600.

If you have a wife its best to wait till shes out of town then do this inside.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Thanks to you both.

I will leave the sanding debate alone, as a newbie should.

"Out-gas" time with slow cure due to lower temps, seems logical course, along with more roller strokes, many more. Looks like time to move the project inside, as the West 207 is pretty slow cure stuff to begin with.

As an aside, I showed this to my wife. I had joked this past weekend along those lines. We both got a big laugh out of the post, so bravo and cheers. :lol: Meanwhile, at no time did I intimate that this would happen this week while she is at work - my office is a barn style out-building here at home. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:41 pm 
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You could make a poor mans vacuum bell out of some 2 X 6's and some 3/4" ply. Use a shop vac to draw it down. I doubt if you'd have to run it for more than 5 or 10 minutes to draw the bubbles out. I guess it all depends on just how far you you want to take this or bad you want the bubbles out. You'd have to trade out the bar clamp support stands though :)

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