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De-masted, due to roller furler failure
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Author:  Tom King [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
I don't remember which model I replaced mine with but I'm thinking it is a model stronger than the 435. To clarify, I only replaced the upper part-halyard swivel.

I can't figure out how to post pictures here. It looks like a 435 but if I'm remembering correctly, that one wasn't strong enough. I looked at their current catalog and it looks like the halyard swivel for this one:

http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/ ... MEB9Y976JK

I made a shorter upper forestay and the stock halyard block is a very tight fit in the bottom of the swivel. Works great.


Was the failure that started this thread the upper swivel or lower drum part?
Author:  sierramike [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
I believe fastcat said it was the yoke...the metal strap around the drum that the bridles attach to. Yikes. Tom you are right the #435 (Harken small boat furling) is comprised of two parts the upper swivel and the drum furler assembly: #164 and #165. I actually looked at one at the local Hobie store today and decided on the Hobie furler rebuild kit. The Hobie furler seems more adjustable. The yoke is a seperate purchase to the kit and I believe it is around $20. I hope I am gettin' this right. I am hoping Matt chimes in on this.
Author:  Sail Revolution [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
Tom King wrote:
It looks like a 435 but if I'm remembering correctly, that one wasn't strong enough.


Hello Tom. I would love to see pics of your furler installed. The 435 is only rated for a 900# load. Which, when sheeted in upwind I bet the force on the forstay approaches that. I couldnt find specs, buy I'd bet the Hobie furler is double + that. The yoke on the Hobie furler is thicker than a chainplate and double, I would be very cautious about installing the Harken 435 furler, I've seen 2 of them fail in this application. The torlon bearings get crushed in short order, and the installation is kind of funky. The Hobie one is bomber, but as with anything (eveything!), you need to inspect it every so often, especially if it's been in service for over 20 years. Look for rust and inspect regularly. I just made a rebuild video for the Hobie furler and will post soon.

61980000 Furler Yoke $19.90
61900900 Tune up kit $42

J
Author:  Tom King [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
Yeah, I'm sure it's not the 435. Also by memory it seems like the Hobie halyard swivel is a Ronstan rated at maybe 2,000 or 2,500. I'm sure the one I used is rated over 3,000 since the primary reason I wanted to change was to get a stronger one. Too many hoops to jump through to post pics here. I measured the overall length of the swivel and it's a hair over 6 inches. The halyard block for the 21 fits tightly into the opening in the bottom of the swivel and held by the clevis. Since the swivel was longer it required a shorter upper forestay.

The two failures that i saw were on fairly new boats so I thought it was a strength issue. One was on the boat of the guy who was always at the back of the fleet in Wrightsville Beach (he unfortunately has passed on now) and the other was Pete Mevin's (the circuit winner that year) boat in fairly light wind in Annapolis. On both those boats the swivel simply pulled apart.
Author:  Sail Revolution [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
Tom King wrote:
Also by memory it seems like the Hobie halyard swivel is a Ronstan rated at maybe 2,000 or 2,500.


Yep, The one Hobie uses is made by Ronstan and rated for that load.

j
Author:  sierramike [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
J - that rebuild video sounds great - please post when it is availible. Thank you.
Author:  send4help [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
so, if I understand this correctly, the furler came apart. When that failed and came apart you didn't have a forestay anymore. So your mast fell aft.

I would have never thought of that happening. Yikes. Another thing to watch out for.

Some questions:

1. When the mast fell, did it do any damage to the ball, and/or the pin and all of that assembly that connects the mast to the boat? Since you need to rotate the mast when stepping or lowering it, it seems to me there would be an excellent chance of catastrophic damage when the thing just goes down like that.

2. Someone said "replace all standing rigging yearly", and all "standing hardware" every five years,what does that mean? Would you really do that if, say, you lived in the Northeast, sailed freshwater, maybe 30 times a season?

my boat is a '92 17 Sport, which I bought heavily used 5 years ago. I was planning on replacing shrouds, trap wires, fore-stays. Any strong recommendations for other parts I should replace this winter? I'm leaning heavily towards a new jib furler.

thanks,

Dan
Author:  fastcat [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
Dan, see response to your questions in blue

Some questions:

1. When the mast fell, did it do any damage to the ball, and/or the pin and all of that assembly that connects the mast to the boat? Since you need to rotate the mast when stepping or lowering it, it seems to me there would be an excellent chance of catastrophic damage when the thing just goes down like that. There was no other damage to the boat except for the bottom batten spliting due to over flexing (it was repairable with fiberglass resin). I remove the stepping pin when sailing. The mast didn't fall with the initial furler yoke failure (the furler mechanism hung up within the split yoke) so I had time to loosen the main sheet and point the boat a bit so when the mast did fall it naturally rotated and fell behind the leeward wing. As it turns out the mast tip hits the water first, so the rear cross beam also was not impacted. The bottom batten split while I was unhooking the upper mainsheet block from the boomlet.

2. Someone said "replace all standing rigging yearly", and all "standing hardware" every five years,what does that mean? Would you really do that if, say, you lived in the Northeast, sailed freshwater, maybe 30 times a season? No, I replace mine about every 5 years. Also I use the heaver 5/32" hydraulic swaged shrouds.

my boat is a '92 17 Sport, which I bought heavily used 5 years ago. I was planning on replacing shrouds, trap wires, fore-stays. Any strong recommendations for other parts I should replace this winter? I'm leaning heavily towards a new jib furler. Bridal wires, both upper and lower (solid SS dogbone wire that connects the spreader bar to the boat). Check the bolts that hold the upper and lower bridal wires to the endcaps of the spreader bar (I found one of mine about ready to shed its nut). Also check all the clevis pins and retainer rings, replace as needed. If you are concerned about the furler, you don't have to replace the whole thing (~$250.00). Instead just replace the yoke (part# 61980000 @ ~ $20.00) and get a rebuild kit (part# 61900900 @ ~ $42.00). :wink:

Good luck
Author:  Sail Revolution [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
Quickie rebuild:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhrzlrgV ... edded#t=92

J
Author:  send4help [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
J,

looks like the only tool I don't have is the little thing that looks like a pair of needle nose pliers, but opens the beaks instead of closes, for springing open the circlip.

what's that thing called, and are they typical hardware store items?

thanks,

Dan

ps. I have the ipod with the reggae so I'm good there!
Author:  send4help [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
fastcat,

the heavier duty (5/32) shroud you mention, is that a Hobie part?

I don't sail in the heavy stuff you sail in, at least not ALL the time...but my son sails it hard when he's around, so I wouldn't mind the extra insurance.

thanks,

Dan
Author:  Sail Revolution [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
Send4,
They are called snap ring pliers.
Going to a larger rigging isn't necessarily going to be better for keeping your rig up in the air. The standard wires are waaaay over the max load you could ever encounter on a sailboat. The thing that breaks stainless wire is the work hardening of the wires from a rotating mast or other. To illustrate this, you hardly ever see a wire in good condition break mid span, in other words the wire itself is strong enough for the application. Wire always breaks where it was kinked or near a swage. Going oversize just ads weight aloft and cost for no real benefit. The best thing you could do is inspect your wires often and replace them on a set schedule no matter if they are 1/8" Dyform or 1/2" rod.

Sail On!
J
Author:  fastcat [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
Dan, the 5/32" shrouds I use comes from Murrarys. Surf City is correct in that there is not much difference between 1/8" and 5/32 wire strength wise (2100 lbs vs 2400 lbs) and the weight difference between 2 - 1/8" and 2 - 5/32" shrouds is about 1/2 lb. Most of the breaks does happen around the swage. Thus hydraulic swaging and a marine eye is installed at the bottom end fitting where breakage commonly occurs produces a cleaner, stronger shroud, as those made by Murrays. The price difference is ~ $15.00/shroud 8)
Author:  Sail Revolution [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
fastcat wrote:
Most of the breaks does happen around the swage. Thus hydraulic swaging and a marine eye is installed at the bottom end fitting where breakage commonly occurs produces a cleaner, stronger shroud, as those made by Murrays.


My point is that no matter how much $$ you throw at you rigging to keep the mast in the air it doesn't do any good unless you inspect it regularly... as illustrated by fastcat's dismasting.
Author:  fastcat [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: De-masted, due to roller furler failure
Quote:
My point is that no matter how much $$ you throw at you rigging to keep the mast in the air it doesn't do any good unless you inspect it regularly... as illustrated by fastcat's dismasting

A very good point. And I do inspect on a regular basis, and replace shrouds/forstays every 4-5 years. The furler yoke was not on my radar screen before, but it is now. :wink:
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