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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:15 am 
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Matt(s),

Of the three rudders which one would be better for different sailing conditions, styles, types of races (club vs serious circuit traveling)? Anything would be better than the stock blades I have now. Upwind in anything over 10 kts the boat "spins out"

John


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 Post subject: Which one?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:11 am 
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Which one?

They all have the same foil shape and all are stiff. The Kevlar/Carbon one is very strong (had the highest breaking strength... way beyond reality), but Kevlar may have some UV issues over time. Should keep them covered. The Carbons are perhaps a bit better at that. I think between those two it is going to be looks. The Kevlar is kind of yellow. Depends on style really. You want something really different? I ordered in mostly Carbons and white ones. Out here we have a lot of kelp and grass in the water. It is really hard to see on a black blade. So... White for grass areas, Carbon is Gucci and maybe a little stiffer and lighter. The Kevlar Carbon is stronger still and a different kind of Gucci.

ANYTHING is better that the plastic blades. It will be like adding power steering to your boat. I think the biggest thing you will find is that they don't stall or cavitate NEARLY as easily as plastic ones, so you can steer hard if you need to and they will respond. Plus with less deformation in the foil, they are faster.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:22 am 
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jes9613 wrote:
Upwind in anything over 10 kts the boat "spins out"

John


This may be more sailing style than blades though. You should be able to push the plastic blades to high speeds without "spinning out".

I would guess that you are to far forward when sailing upwind. This brings the blades up out of the water and they cavitate more easily and you loose steering.

As it gets windier on a 16, you have to move back, crew and skipper are at the back of the tramp.

Image

If you are losing steering upwind, move aft more.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:25 am 
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Matt,

Thanks for the reply. The weight is back upwind as required, in fact I have to ease the main to reduce the pressure on the rudders, move forward to re-establish flow over them and head back upwind (while my competition with EPO's sail 5 degrees higher) I got to get some different (non-stock) rudders for my '84 16.

Thanks again,

John


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 Post subject: Move back?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:57 am 
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Move back?

Seems, I would be moving back to re-establish flow. Or get the boat flatter again. Do you use the traveler? You may have it too centered in challenging conditions. Also be sure the jib is not over sheeted upwind. Maybe travel it out a little. Use leech telltails on the main? That way you can be sure not to over sheet the main... a common problem. You think you are going slower, so you sheet harder.

Be sure the rudders are set to proper toe in. With plastic blades I might go to 1/4" toe in. Especially if the system is a little sloppy. Toe out can cause cavitation more easily as the two blades track differently.

http://www.wb-sails.fi/news/95_11_Tellingtales/Tellingtales.html

Basic use of telltails on the leach is in the upper third of the sail. If they flow straight back all the time, you are likely under sheeted. If they hook around to the lee side and stay there, you are over sheeted. They should dance a little back a forth. Straight back and then maybe a little hook to the lee side.

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Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:37 pm 
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I'm amazed that your boat doesn't pitch pole. I have to move back even if I have control just to keep it upright.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:52 am 
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Guys,

The boat has "spun out". There is NO boat speed, No danger in pitchpoling, while not directly into the wind you are essentially in irons. If you move back you make the problem worse by allowing the boat to pivot on the rudder into the wind. You need to get off the wind and re-eastablish flow over the rudders. To do this you need to ease the pressure on the rudders. Ease the main, sheet the jib hard to bring the bows back off the wind (steer with the sails). Move forward to put more pressure on the hulls.

Inland lake sailing where the upwind legs are relativly short, the name of the game is the ability to point. (for the most part). The stiffer the rudder the better your chances are on being able to maintain a high position upwind relative to the fleet. Therefore the basis of my question regarding the best rudder for our conditions.

Thanks for the responses.

John


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:58 am 
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Any of the new rudders will work fine with you. I would get all the weight on the back of the boat, roll tack! I promise with a little practice this will be the fastest and most effective way to take. Be sure you ease main sheet out about 6 inches when the boat is head to wind, this will allow the main sail to weather vane around, then I always fall off the wind, not the boat, to regain speed and flow over my rudders. Once I am up to speed I sheet back in hard and point away! Hope this helps, good luck in your racing. Practice Practice Practice! Time on the tiller is as good as any "go fast item" but those still help!


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Brad Stephens
www.sunjammers.com
Authorized Hobie/Vanguard/Hunter Dealer
Hobie Division 15 Chairman
info@sunjammers.com
850-235-2281
Panama City Beach, FL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:07 am 
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Brad,

Thanks for the reply. I'm not trying to tack. I'm just trying to head high without spinning out. A stiffer pair of rudders will help me get there.

John


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 Post subject: Rudders and move aft
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:38 pm 
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Better rudders and move aft...

Ahhh. Yeah, once you lose the rudders (cavitation) and the boat heads to wind, moving back that far is not the cure. You are right. Sheet out the main, head off and get it tracking. Then head up and get aft. You have to stay aft while the rudders are tracking properly... if you are too far forward the rudders will come out and you with lose steering again.

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Hobie Cat USA


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