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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:20 pm 
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Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota
I posted this on the GetAway group, but I'd like to address the whole group as well. I bought my new GetAway last summer ('04) and I love it more than I can say! The first time I capsized I learned I can't right it alone. (female - 130 lbs- old). I bought shroud-extenders which add 18" to the weather shroud--the idea being you pull the pin when you know you're going over. I tested it in calm, shallow water and it worked great. Last weekend I capsized in 15-20 Kn winds and I was swimming before I could pull the pin. The pin was sitting on the weather ama 8 feet straight up in the air. I managed to climb up and release it-I don't know how. I didn't manage to swing to the wind and wasn't able to right it myself. Some fellow jumped off his speedboat and pulled it right over, though. Does anyone have experience with the extenders as a self-righting tool :?: If so, I'd love some info on what I could have done differently. The only other thing is a tendency to slide off the ama when suddenly heeled in a gust. I'm considering neoprene pads. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:12 am 
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Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Hi there "mama" and welcome to the forum 8)

I used to be a short light-weight. Now I'm just short trying-to-lose- weight :roll: I have used the extenders to successfully self-right a 16 on my own when I only weighed in at 130lbs. I use them now on my 17 on which I am typically flying solo at 160 lbs.

First: I am not sure that I understand how you can anticipate that you are going over with enough time to pull the pin. :?: For one thing, if you come inboard enough to pull the pin because you "think" you are going over, you will lose leverage and you certainly will go over. Know what I mean? :) Your first concern is to be actively seeking pre-emptive moves like letting go the main, turning up into the wind, hiking out as far as possible etc. Going over is usually fast and sometimes painful (unless you are doing the agonizingly slow "flying a hull death roll" :lol: )

Second: I have not figured out an easy way to reach the pin 8 feet above my head. I have found it useful to have the quick release head on the inboard side so that when I do get up to the thing I can pull it downward. But getting up to it is a BEAR. I once tried pulling the pin on the hull at my feet- reasoning that 18" of length from one side or the other didn't matter (true) BUT forgetting that the boat would all but dismast itself when it came up. I have pulled the pin while turtled. That works, but you know how hard it is to get from turtle to edge... I wish I had a better answer, but I don't and it is just getting harder as I get older. :oops:

Third: testing in calm shallow waters gives you false hope (sort of like the golf flag on a green 480 yards away). You will never go over in calm water. It also is HARDER to get the boat up without wind and waves working with you. The waves help to prevent your sail from forming a suction on the water and the wind blowing against the tramp and wings help to bring you over. As I have said in other posts on righting, the wind that blew you down will help to blow you upright. Test again in real conditions with a friend nearby. 8)

Anyone else have ideas on how to get to the pin?

Oh- the neoprene is a good idea I think...

And maybe a smaller boat to sail solo on too... :wink:

Happy Sails
-Stephen

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:40 am 
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
A few questions.

What is the ama that you refer to...

Where do you get the shroud extenders and are they appropriate for the Tiger..

Lastly the neoprene pads would go where and for what purpose...

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Alan


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:09 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI
Alan - think ama=hull

Amas are the outriggers on a trimaran. Catamarans have two hulls and no amas.

But we figured it out anyway. :wink:

I don't think shroud extenders would be appropriate for the Tiger for a number of reasons - the shroud loads are very high (if the fast pin bends even a little, the only way to get it out is with a saw) and the Tiger sails best with a tight rig (you'd never be able to pull the pin - or get it back in on the water)


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 Post subject: Re Shroud-extenders
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:43 pm 
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Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota
Thanks :D for your responses. I didn't realize an "ama" only referred to the tri. :oops: (I cruised on a Brown Searunner 37 trimaran for several years and "Amamama" was my name-o.) :P I'm starting to think self-righting may be a nearly a lost cause. I never thought of putting in the pin from inboard, tho. That would be a few inches less to stretch and much less awkward. Thanks! :D I talked to the dealer today to see if I could have brought it into the wind without swimming the mast float around (after all the climbing and other athletics) and he didn't think so. I think I could definately rig a foot-hold from the wings to help me up :?: :?: :?: Day before yesterday it was blowing 25+ so I spent the day in the Laser. I realised then that I DO cleat the sheet on the cat alot. Yesterday was blowing 15+. I realised I physically CAN't :oops: ride the cat's mainsheet for more than a few seconds. I found some people to ride and did much better, of course. I usually use the Laser in high winds, but it's a big lake and conditions change. I'd sure like to be able to pull it over myself. When I cpasized last summer, no one came to my rescue. (It was a weekday.) I eventually blew ashore on an uninhabited peninsula, took off the main, walked the mast up on shore as far as I could go, then walked it back up to the point of no return, and set the mast in a TREE, waded around and pulled it over. Think there may be a market for my invention? :?: Good grief :!: Thanks again. I'll keep listening.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:12 pm 
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Location: St. Louis, MO
You might want to upgrade the mainsheet system to a 6:1 or 8:1. This will make it much easier to hold on to the main sheet. But, you have to remember that it will take more line to sheet in or out and you will need to react a little faster. On my H18 I have a 7:1 and I go all day without cleating it in heavy air.

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 Post subject: mainsheet block
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:40 pm 
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Oh my gosh. I was wondering about that! I will absolutely do that. Thank you. :!: :!:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:56 pm 
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Location: los angeles
Hi - I have a Wave, which is much easier than a Getaway to right, but here is a method referred to as Power Righting which may help you.

1. Release the main sheet from your mainsail.

2. If the boat is not lying with the hulls and mast forming a 45 degree angle to the wind, you need to get it there. Stand on the bow of the hull which is in the water. The sterns will lift and weathervane around. (Swimming the mast around will work, but it sure takes a lot of energy.)

3. When the bows and mast are pointing into the wind at about 45 degrees each, get to your righting line, stand on the hull, lean back as close to the water as possible without going in, and hopefully the mast will start to lift. Once the wind gets under the sail, it will help bring the cat upright.

Try this out. Of course, you may be too light to bring the cat up without some sort of aid. There are simple righting tools which will help you, such as righting buckets which use the weight of water inside them to add to your natural weight and help bring the cat up. Hobie and Murrays Marine both sell them, and you might want to check those out as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:30 pm 
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Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota
OK. Getting up on the bow should swing me around some? That would be great. I thought I'd read that somewhere, but then I thought I'd read to stand on the stern. Standing anywhere was difficult. I kept slipping off backinto the water. Gotta get non-skid booties. I was barefoot. I must have looked like such an idit. I appreciate your response very much. I've seen the water bags, too. I'll look into that if my weight just can't cut it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:31 am 
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Location: Finger Lakes, NY
> Stand on the bow or stern, it doesn't really matter. If you have the forward tramp I think it might be easier on the stern.
> Booties - you betcha - otherwise it's a like standing on ice in while wearing penny loafers
> Water-bag assist - one of the systems uses a couple small snatch blocks to lift the bag. I like it because it makes lifting 40-60 lbs of water a lot easier. You may not even need the extenders.
> Gloves? I assume you have a pair, but wearing them, to me, is like adding one more purchase to the main. If you have a 6:1 you can easily convert to a 7:1 with one more pulley mounted on the front of the lower block.

Cool name - ama mama - NOW we get it :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:03 am 
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Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota
This is exactly the info I've been craving and haven't been able to find. It would be nice not to have to use the shroud-extenders cuz then you have to deal with getting it all back together when you're tired enuf already. I'll go home tonight and try to picture adding a pulley to the front of the lower block. I do wear gloves always. Can't imagine going without. I really appreciate this help and info. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:56 am 
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Location: St. Louis, MO
To get an idea of what adding a pully to the lowe block looks like, check out the Hobie catalog on page 35. Look at teh reeving diagram for a 6:1 main sheet system. Where the arrow with the #7 in it ties off, put your pully there and run the line up to the boom.

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Nick

Current Boat
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Previous boats owned
'74 Pearson 30
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
St. Louis, MO


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:37 pm
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Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota
Thanks. I get it. Love the idea of being able to hang on to the sheet. I've been working too hard and cleating too often. A friend is offering to let me have his old sheet system- won't know till next week, but it might be 8:1. We'll see. -

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 Post subject: Shroud-extenders, etc
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:45 pm 
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Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota
Is there a way to post a foto if it will help me describe something? :?:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
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Location: Detroit, MI
The photo must be hosted on another server -

For example, I can upload images to my Comcast storage space, then link to them here using the "Img" button in the "Post a Reply" box.

Or you can use Google Image Search (GIS) to find a photo and using the same technique, link to its URL.

For example, GIS for "amamama" produces this:


Image

which really just a link to the image at http://www.amamama.us/photos/momsbestl.jpg, which is on the Ama Mama web site (amamama.us - very interesting, BTW)

The Internet is like a box of chocolates - you nevah know whut ya gonnah get.


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