Hobie Forums :: View topic - Standard Hobie Sail Sizes

wildlatin :
I design and make most of my own sails, it's a heck of a lot of work and engineering, and very easy to get it wrong. I only do it because it's part of my hobby and I like using my hands and mind designing and making stuff (I'm a design engineer and master craftsman).

I've designed and built many things just for the fun of it ( helicopters, racing hydroplanes, an airplane, many race cars, etc) all just for the fun of it.

If I counted my engineering time and labor hours, my own sails cost me triple what a commercial sail costs. Thats not including the $40k computer system I design on and the very expensive sewing equipment needed to sew sails (my Pfaff machine was around $2k), plus the huge layout area and tables required.

If I had to guess I would estimate 75% of a sails cost is the cost of the sailcloth and raw materials, unless you plant your own dacron trees in your yard and grow your own( LOL) and get a loom, you can't work around that cost. I read every book I could find on sail design for a year or two before attempting to make my first sail.

A company called Sailrite has very good instructional videos and sell pre-cut panels and designs that you can make yourself. ( http://www.sailritesails.com/videoselections.aspx ) They also sell all the materials.

There are free sail design programs available on the web (just google sailcut CAD) or go to this link ( http://www.sailcut.com/Sailcut_CAD). Most local colleges offer engineering programs in fluid dynamics if you really want to get into it, many colleges offer degree programs on the subject. You could offer to intern at a sail shop, but I would think you would need a formal engineering education prior just so you can do and understand the math and concepts (tons of math involved).

Author:	wildlatin [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Standard Hobie Sail Sizes
Hope you like parody... Sorry, I couldn't resist ! fusioneng wrote: wildlatin : I design and make most of my own sails, it's a heck of a lot of work and engineering, and very easy to get it wrong. I only do it because it's part of my hobby and I like using my hands and mind designing and making stuff (I'm a design engineer and master craftsman). I create ALL of my own sails directly from quantum materials. I do it in altruistic devotion to the ultimate good of mankind. I'm a meta-designer and been called The ultra-master craftsman... fusioneng wrote: I've designed and built many things just for the fun of it ( helicopters, racing hydroplanes, an airplane, many race cars, etc) all just for the fun of it. I've designed space vehicles, fusion-powered submarines, and all recent winners of Nascar championships and Nobel prizes in physics... it's hilarious diversion. fusioneng wrote: If I counted my engineering time and labor hours, my own sails cost me triple what a commercial sail costs. Thats not including the $40k computer system I design on and the very expensive sewing equipment needed to sew sails (my Pfaff machine was around $2k), plus the huge layout area and tables required. I work on a $5M quantum replicator, my cero-fibro composite manufacturing facilities now encompass 30% of the area of Nevada... My designs cost 10% of competing paradigms. fusioneng wrote: If I had to guess I would estimate 75% of a sails cost is the cost of the sailcloth and raw materials, unless you plant your own dacron trees in your yard and grow your own( LOL) and get a loom, you can't work around that cost. I read every book I could find on sail design for a year or two before attempting to make my first sail. I produce my own advanced polymers by recombining 100% recycled materials... All spun by genetically-recombinant orb spiders to my specifications. I have written every book you have read on sail design, advanced fluid dynamics, and also a few Bible chapters... fusioneng wrote: A company called Sailrite has very good instructional videos and sell pre-cut panels and designs that you can make yourself. ( http://www.sailritesails.com/videoselections.aspx ) They also sell all the materials. I now own controlling interest in Sailrite... fusioneng wrote: There are free sail design programs available on the web (just google sailcut CAD) or go to this link ( http://www.sailcut.com/Sailcut_CAD). Most local colleges offer engineering programs in fluid dynamics if you really want to get into it, many colleges offer degree programs on the subject. You could offer to intern at a sail shop, but I would think you would need a formal engineering education prior just so you can do and understand the math and concepts (tons of math involved). I wrote Sailcut_CAD in 5min on my Android phone. I have been asked to head up the engineering programs at MIT, CMU, and Stanford... Had to decline; too busy correcting this CO2 'thing'. fusioneng wrote: Otherwise you will end up being a gopher and delivery driver for them. Hope this helps you. Bob I have combined my DNA with that of a gopher to better understand animal philosophy... I am Phillip Fry. Now that I've p*ssed you off I want to say that your comments are pertinent and helpful...

Author:	fusioneng [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Standard Hobie Sail Sizes
wildlatin: No problem, I like your humor, check out sailrite though they are a pretty neat outfit and they can probably answer some of your questions about mounting one brand of sails onto another boat, and watching their videos you can better understand what's important and what isn't, which I think you were trying to do before all of us lambasted you. Bob

Author:	srm [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Standard Hobie Sail Sizes
fusioneng wrote: If I had to guess I would estimate 75% of a sails cost is the cost of the sailcloth and raw materials Unlikely. The majority of the cost is almost certainly in labor and manufacturing costs (i.e. the cost to operate a plant). Material costs are probably only a small fraction of the overall cost. These sails are built in the USA and they are assembled by skilled workers - that doesn't come cheap. If they were built in Mexico, China, or Sri Lanka, they would probably be considerably cheaper, but quality would likely suffer. sm

Author:	Sail Revolution [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Standard Hobie Sail Sizes
I have measured every Hobie catamaran model, and designed my own sails for each, with the idea that I would offer aftermarket sails. Every local sailmaker that I talked with said that the labor would kill my price point, and that they would end up costing more than the sails that Hobie offers. Due to all of the batten pockets etc., cat sails are very difficult to build. Project done. It's very difficult to get the quality that Hobie offers for the price. Had several built over seas, but realistically, the market is so tiny, it's just not worth it. I have one brand new aftermarket 16 sail left if anyone wants it. [email protected]

Author:	OlderBowman [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Standard Hobie Sail Sizes
If they were built in Mexico, China, or Sri Lanka, they would probably be considerably cheaper, but quality would likely suffer. only slightly relevant to this discussion, but we recently purchased a brand new set of North 3DL sails for the J109 I also race on. they are built well and performed beautifully during this year's Block Island Race Week. we were all stunned to learn they were built in India!

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Author:	srm [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Standard Hobie Sail Sizes
OlderBowman wrote: we recently purchased a brand new set of North 3DL sails for the J109 I also race on. they are built well and performed beautifully during this year's Block Island Race Week. we were all stunned to learn they were built in India! You're correct, and my comment was probably a little too general. Good quality equipment can be built overseas, but there is for sure a transition period to overseas production where quality is likely to suffer until the process gets up to speed. About ten years ago, most of the US windsurfing industry's production of sails and boards went overseas. Equipment prices held or in some cases dropped, but there were definitely some hiccups along the way. It's a huge initial investment to make that transfer requiring dedicated US staff to spend a large amount of time overseas getting things right. North is the world's largest sailmaker, so for them it's probably worth it. Anyway, my point was that really, the material costs for these products are generally a low percentage of the overall final cost. It's the labor cost to hand manufacture a sail or hull that really drive the final cost. It requires several hours for someone to construct a sail. sm

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