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 Post subject: Re: New Hobie Catamaran
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:25 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
Posts: 1665
Location: Northfield Minnesota
sxrracer wrote:
Karl Brogger wrote:
Pre-preg, carbon, nomex, autoclaved. Bam! Foam is
for saving money.

Sxracer, time to get an fx1, bit lighter for ya.

Karl, I never saw this response. You referring to the Yamaha Fx1? Can't stand them!!! When they came out they were great. Friend had one. But once we got Superjets. All bets were off.


Yeah, the Yamaha. I've got one I haven't ridden in a couple of years. I'd like to put the larger SuperJet pump in it, but haven't gotten around to it. I pretty much stopped riding it because its cavitating badly. My guess is the wear ring is shot as the impeller looks to be in good shape. They are squirrelly as hell compared to the SuperJet for sure.

One thing I can't grasp is how flippin' expensive jet ski parts are. Everything seems outrageous compared to every other motorized toy I've ever had.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:43 am 
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Location: SE Michigan / NE Indiana
Back on topic :)

T2 looks interesting. Kinda fits nicely between the Wave and the Tiger/Wildcat.

Its too bad the roto-molded PE is so darn heavy, but I guess that's the tradeoff for durability. Also guessing that the roto is much less expensive than equivalent fiberglass hulls.

_________________
Jeff R
'88 H18 Jolly Mon
'10 F18 Closely Called
Sail Michigan's Great Lakes in 2014
cramsailing.com


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:36 pm
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Location: Near Toronto Canada
I would have to cast my vote for the Pearl. It looks like a fast and versatile boat.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Location: SE Michigan
As one of those people you're looking to bring into the fold, the answer isn't so easy. You may not like it, but realize I've never sailed before 2013, and never thought I would or could. I thought it was a rich, snobby elitist thing.

Today, we looked down from a sand dune over a lake we just whipped across on the new to us '84 H16. I looked down at the boat and realized that I NEVER would have believed we could do this or be there a year ago.

I grew up with canoes/kayaks. This weekend, I saw lots of kayaks, a few canoes, 1 monohull, 1 AI, and at least a dozen fishing boats, 3 ski boats, and 5 jet skis. Once I saw an AI, I was hooked and I still want AI/TI, but it'll take a while to find the money to fund one. I don't even have to get on it to know I WANT a small fleet of them. It's does everything I like to do, and seems easy to setup and operate.

We NEVER would have considered a full sailboat/cat, until we tried one on vacation this spring. We know lots of people with boats. My father-in-law has at least 3 from a jon boat up to a monster cruiser. We don't know anyone who sails. It's pour fuel, drop it off the ramp, turn the key, and go.

Here's what we don't like about the Getaway from looking into buying one: it's heavy (requires more vehicle than we have to tow) and expensive to acquire (which is why I didn't just scoop up an AI/TI already). The Wave seemed too small, but the same list applies.

Here's what we don't like about the H16: (what I hear regularly)
-it takes way too long to setup (20-30 min), yes the family says no, because it takes too long
-it's too hard to setup, it takes some muscule to get the mast up/down
-it's too hard to learn to control and operate
(and the points we agree on)
-It's too hard to launch and recover
--nearly everyplace we go is designed for motor boats. Having fished from a canoe, I know that some lakes are downright hostile to canoes/kayaks with the locals trying to flip you with their wakes
--many places are very hard to navigate into the lake from the protected launching area. It took us an hour to get in yesterday night as we had to navigate a couple of tight channels with shifting wind.
-It doesn't have quite enough bouyancy

Yesterday, we should have been trapped out as we were burying the leeward hull, but we're still too nervous to try it. Today, I reefed the main (our 84 has reefing points), and my daughter was screaming, "we're going to die!" as we just reached that point the rudder was humming. It was great. The way home I heard "why haven't we done this every weekend this summer?"

I still want an AI or a TI though. I want to be able to load up gear, launch easily, and go camp a couple miles away by water.

So, maybe it's not just about what boat or marketing, but how do you get people interested in sailing? Especially, when it's not easy or cheap to pick up and just do.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:12 am 
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Location: Charlottesville, VA
You are very right about the frustration of having convoluted passage between the ramp and the open water. Especially with a 16 which doesn't tack so well. I have crossed several launch sites off my list because of poor access.

Especially on the east coast, the public ramps are often built by the state game people, so they are optimized for fishermen. Protected water, etc. Mast-up storage on a sailing beach would be awesome. Beach wheels let you launch where there are no ramps (if allowed). Where exactly did you launch?

As for the tow vehicle, what do you have? Back before the US consumer became convinced that you need an F-250 to tow a rowboat, people towed all sorts of things with cars. I tow the 16 with my Jetta effortlessly, and I bet I could double-stack for short distances. I can't see the Getaway, at only 390 pounds, being a problem at all. If a car can tow at all, it should be able to tow a Getaway. The total weight is like four people unless you have a really heavy trailer.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:31 am 
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Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
I use to tow 2 jetskis (Standup and Runabout) with my wifes old Grand AM with a 4 cylinder........ Trailer was a heavy steel construction.... Still have it to this day and that was 17 years ago........ small cars can pull just fine..........


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:35 am 
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Location: SE Michigan
Chalk the towing thoughts to me being new to towing stuff. I don't know how I thought the Getaway was so monstrous--the specs looks similar to the H16. It probably would have been an ideal choice for us to get us hooked on sailing, except it being several thousand more expensive. A tiny motor to get into the lake from those public launches and perfect.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
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Location: High Point, NC
These are two common ways for folks to become interested in sailing:

1. Somebody with a boat takes out somebody that doesn't have a boat. The passenger has a great time and decides to look into buying one for themselves. Inexpensive boats are out there, normally used, of course.

2. They stumble into it by accident. I bought a Hobie Sail Kit when I bought my Outback in 2005. It sat in a corner (the sail kit) until a couple years ago when I stuck it in my PA just for the heck of it. I liked it and then stuck it in my Revolution. I liked that even more. Then I bought an AI, a TI, A Trifoiler and more recently a Weta. This sequence of events came about because I was able to buy a $350 sail kit that allowed me to sail a kayak I already owned.

One of the best features on Hobie kayaks is the ability to add a sail to them. I really wonder how many others have done this on a whim and ended up discovering that they really liked sailing and then bought a dedicated sailboat.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:03 am 
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Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
For comparison sake on the twoing question, even my wife's Mini Cooper is rated for 1432 lbs towing capacity. That's actually pretty high for a small car, probably due to it's relatively wide stance and stiff suspension. I probably wouldn't load it's little engine up for a trip through the mountains but it gives you an idea that just about any car should b able to tow a Getaway on a light trailer. In comparison a Honda Acord is 1000 lb. Check your car and it's hitches manual for your own cars ratings.

Also remember that the max tongue weight (probably 200 lbs for a class I hitch) is not the total load of the trailer plus boat. That is the weight that will sit on the ball of the hitch after your load is balanced. Balancing your load so that it's just right on the ball (including not too light either) is super important to ride safely anyways.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:16 am 
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Quote:
Here's what we don't like about the Getaway from looking into buying one: it's heavy (requires more vehicle than we have to tow) and expensive to acquire (which is why I didn't just scoop up an AI/TI already). The Wave seemed too small, but the same list applies.


The diff in weight between a Getaway and an 16 is 70lbs. That's nothing, @390 lbs, its tow-able by most small cars. The H16 and Getaway are both great boats with different appeal. I've owned both. The 16 was great for me and my wife, but with 4 kids, the Getaway is a much better fit.

This new boat, the T2 looks fantastic, it weighs in at 388 lbs, about the same as the Getaway. The big question is it faster? There is much more to performance then weight. We will not really know until someone comes out with a handicap number for it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:15 am 
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To add to the towing conversation, I had both a 16 and 18 during the time I owned a VW Passat with the 1.8L engine. I regularly towed the 18 from Annapolis, MD to Burlington, VT. My milage stank, but the car had no problems. I did have a manual transmission which I think helped. I just sold that VW this spring with 285,000 miles on it. The heat stopped working and it cost significantly more than the car was worth to fix it. If it was not for that I would still be driving and towing with it.

I am now in a Mazda3 with the Skyactive engine. I again have the manual transmission. I looked up the towing capacity for the car in my manual. It says do not tow at all. However, if you look in the manual for European Mazda3's it is ~1000lbs. I saw a Ford Fiesta towing an H18 at the local lake. It seems in Europe they are unaware that small cars can't tow.

Just be smart and balance the trailer correctly and you will be fine.

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Nick

Current Boat
In the market
Previous boats owned
'74 Pearson 30
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
St. Louis, MO


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:08 pm 
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Location: Charlottesville, VA
Hobie Nick wrote:
It seems in Europe they are unaware that small cars can't tow.


Europe definitely did not get the memo. My '98 TDI had a tow rating in Europe, but in my US owner's manual, "For technical reasons, it is not possible to tow a trailer." I haven't looked to see what my '03 manual says... who cares, I bought the factory (Europe) tow hitch for that car. The car already had the holder for the removable hitch in the spare tire well.

My mileage does go down... it's probably 25~30 when I have the H16 behind me, depending on how fast I'm driving.

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'00 H16 #104691 - '78 H16 #32692 ex-rental - Old Holsclaw trailer
My Hobie 16 pages


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:04 am 
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I tow my 16 regularly behind my Jetta TDI and average 35-39 mpg. I've even towed almost 2 entire setups at the same time (one trailer stacked onto another).


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:15 pm 
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Location: Plum Island, MA
Seems like a stripped upgradable Wild Cat (a mild cat if you will) would be the thing. Harley's been doing it to provide folks with lower cost alternatives to their most expensive touring bikes.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:46 am 
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From the (American Sailing Association) Facebook Page: The CAT'S out of the bag! As announced today in Paris, ASA is partnering with Hobie Cat Company and Oracle to produce this catamaran modeled on the America's Cup winners. Stay tuned for more details!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater


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