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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:12 am 
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I'm going to assume he meant sail-rigged kayaks and specifically 'sailing on a sail-rigged kayak is easier.'

Otherwise, my challenge to join me in a sea kayak after the next nor-easter goes out to him as well. heheh


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:49 am 
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There is room for both. Chevy makes trucks and sports cars. Hobie has just focused on profitable, business substaining products. THANK GOD

But, we are ready for the next fiberglass cat and I soundly believe it will and can be profitable.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:36 am 
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Norm742 wrote:
I think things would have been more likely to change rapidly if it were Hobie Europe purchasing Hobie USA, as opposed to vice versa.


Guys who think that... because we don't concentrate primarily on high performance sailing... somehow that is the reason the market for those products has declined... are simply wrong. You can't force feed the market.

You see, we have been following a path to success here in the US since the early 1990's by developing a line of boats that sell. They sell to recreational, entry level and... more advanced sailors.

As a plan, we have been cultivating the sailing market from the bottom up. We now have several of the top selling sailing platforms in the World. The Hobie Adventure Islands, Hobie Wave and Getaway. We are also teaching sailing to tens-of-thousands of kayakers. Each and every one of the Mirage kayaks is capable of adding a sail rig... we sell thousands of those kits. We already see these sailors taking an interest in our other sailing products.

By bringing in Hobie Cat Europe, we gain additional highly skilled fiberglass construction capability. They gain the foundation of our recreation oriented products. We believe that the combination of multiple product types is critical to our success and that has actually been proven... by our success.

Me... proud to be a cat sailor, but also proud of the "dorky" stuff I do on a kayak. It's all good... and we are still here to support old catamarans with replacement parts and service. I could make a long list of catamaran companies that are not here to support their product owners.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:46 am 
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I'm just wondering what my next sailboat will be, cause it won't be any of the currently offered USA Hobie Catamarans. I am wearing out my current boat, a 2000 H17Sport with 45+ outting/year. Even with Matt's reassurance, I am a bit concerned about how long out-of-production boat parts will be available. So far I've replaced: 2 front beams, 1 rear beam, a mast, a rudder, a centerboard (& spring), wing tramps, all the standing rigging (x1) all the running rigging (x2), Main & Jib, lots of little stuff and refurbish the hull bottoms each winter.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:55 pm 
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I'd like to see a new F-18 out of the Hobie shop. It was rumored that there was U.S. design that never got produced due to the Wildcat coming out. Well What does Hobie have for the F-18 sailors that are looking to upgrade?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Fastcat, youre exactly right. The boats we are using are too old and the H16 is not the right boat for many of us.

Rich, no offence but the f18 idea is a money loser for Hobie as they can't sell enough before technology changes and obsoletes the design.
I have said this before, the missing link is a modernized 16 or 18.

The Hobie Pearl (Americanized), and maybe reviewed for cost reductions is what is needed.

Matt has said Hobie is reviewing it while they are digeting the acquisition.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:14 pm 
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gino wrote:
just keep in mind Hobie USA is in love with rotomolded plastic crafts. that is where the money is coming from at the moment (kayak sales), albeit they are more enthusiastic about marketing these kook crafts and ignoring the glass boats.


I think, we may be too hard on Hobie. AI/TI are very innovative boats. I've almost bought one. The fin drive is very efficient, you can lunch it almost everywhere. It also very safe if your harbor is very tight or wind suddenly picks up and you need to get back. It is a perfect introduction to sailing.
We can't expect Hobie to cover innovation in every field.

After saying this, yes, I would be another one waiting for a new glass boat... :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:31 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
and we are still here to support old catamarans with replacement parts and service.

and this is why so many of us are sticking with Hobie and hoping for a new boat...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:30 am 
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Still only 2 fiberglass and 3 rotomolded sail boats in the US Hobie quiver - 5 total. Hobie Europe 20, YES, 20 boat models. I wonder how long Ford would last if they just offered 5 models to choose from. I don't buy into there is no market for many of the European here. You won't know until the market has been tested. That is, fill a few containers with boats, ship them over the big pond, offer them for sale. A little advertizing might not hurt either. Easy Peezee :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:14 am 
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Quote:
I don't buy into there is no market for many of the European here. You won't know until the market has been tested.


You can not compare us to Ford with that argument... We have a broad line of innovative product. You will note that FORD does not still offer the Model T.

Hobie USA didn't get where we are today by making the wrong decisions on these things. Test? Tiger Wild Cat, FX One, Fox, Dragoon, Hobie 15... all been tried here over the years... among others. Certainly fully tested in Europe by Hobie Cat France. The outcome? We purchased Hobie France because we were strong and they were weak.

Advertising? You can't spend what isn't returned in sales. That too has been tested. We are showing glass cats in national advertising now though and we are looking at viable HCE boats for the US market... along with thinning their line to help them become profitable once again.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:35 am 
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if I were making the decisions for Hobie Cat's future production and marketing, I'd say Matt's description is exactly what I'd do.

the point is, HC is looking at it, be patient. a better future product for the U.S. market will result.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:56 am 
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gmhendo wrote:
Thanks jackB I had not seen that. The Nacra was a clear winner.


I've watched a few videos on Youtube and the Nacra appears from the commentary's to be a very challenging boat to sail.

I doubt Hobie with such a leisure following could follow that design. If they need more speed, I think Hobie will need to find speed with stability.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:14 am 
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I also started a thread on foils a short while ago as the speed of the International Moth makes me very jealous.

I think some technology though is going to be very difficult to reproduce at consumer level eg you mention wanting wing sails but apart from them being rigid and impossible to transport, they also self destruct upon capsize!

The best sail technology we can hope for would be to copy Windsurfing and go for RAF (rotating asymmetrical foil) designs with camber inducers and carbon fibre masts.

eg: http://www.neilpryde.com/sails/racing/2 ... -evov.html

http://www.tushingham.com/windsurfing/sails/x15

Look at cam technology at the bottom of this page: http://www.neilpryde.com/sails/racing/2 ... ew.html#d2

Although obviously for a Hobie you'd be looking at areas exceeding those.

That's pretty much what the International Moth now uses to great success.

The way forward I think with the Hobie 16 is a continued centreboard less design for ease of sailing, a new hull shape which is pitchpoling resistant, more powerful main sails and a Genoa instead of a jib (Q. could a genoa also be camber induced using short battens?), new light weight materials such as carbon fibreglass composite for the hulls as being explored by car manufacturers and pure carbon fibre for the boom, mast etc. to save weight and increase the power to weight ratio.

Personally I prefer a design without a spinnaker for ease of use for recreation, although I don't see why it couldn't be an option for racing.

For recreation, I like to see the set up kept as simple as possible and gains made through lightweight materials, better hull, better sail designs using camber and larger sail area.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:13 am 
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The Hobie 16 will never change as long as there is a class racing it.

Hobie tried the new 20 years back with the Fox but it didn't work for a few different reasons. Now they are making the money with the rotomolded cats and kayaks.

There are a couple choices and then if they don't have what you want look at something you want from somewhere else.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:19 pm 
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In response to the Mixed Multihull Evaluation Evaluation Panel Report (http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/MultihullEvaluationPanelReport-%5B12449%5D.pdf), amongst all the bashing of the Hobie 16 is this:
"Least expensive catamaran in the evaluation process. Over 100,000 boats worldwide (most successful onedesign catamaran class in the world)."

Compare it to the success of the VW bug where you could drop the engine onto a skateboard and rebuild it on your kitchen table.

Don't underestimate simplicity and cost. Hobie Sr. understands the formula:
“get a 16.” They’re easy, they’re not overly expensive, you’ve got a big class to race in – and you can use your wife or kid as crew. (from http://www.hcana.hobieclass.com/?Page=8112

My only real issue with the 16 is how low the boom is since you have to rake the mast so much. If you recut the main and jib to raise the boom, how far back would you keep raking the mast? It would be interesting to iterate the design until you got the right rake, right sail plan and reasonable boom height.


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