Advancement on a budget

I'm on a 87' 16 right now. I want to move up to ultimately the Tiger or something comparable. It seems like a good used tiger I can get in the 10k range. My point is it's still a big jump from buying a $1000 16 to 10k. A good used miracle seems to be around 5k. I'm sharing the cost with another guy and we would probably sail it on one of the great lakes or the ocean and we both would keep our 16's. My question is, Is the miracle a good progression for bang for the buck? or should I go big? I sail for the thrill and the speed, not racing. I've raced my whole life and don't see that as a reason to buy any particular boat. Leaving the racing out and fleets in the area out. What would you guys do?

Technically speaking, the Miracle is "bigger" than the Tiger. Though I don't know anyone who's sold their Tiger to get a Miracle.

You've obviously done your homework on used boat pricing.... But have you considered the availability of parts? Miracle parts are almost as plentiful as H16 parts. Tiger parts are another story. It's much better than it was just a year ago, but sometimes a challange. I suspect your local dealer stocks many Miracle parts. As the Tiger becomes more common, this will be much less of an issue.... Plus used boat prices will probably drop. But that day isn't today.

Just a thought.

Brian C

The H20 is a spin is awesome, the H20 and Tiger are close to the same speed upwind, down with the tiger is much fast than the stock h20...add and spin and have fun!!!

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You did not mention whether you want to race.

If you are interested in racing I would get hold of CRAM in that area. They have a number of Formula 18s racing there. If this is the case get the Tiger.

If you only want a bigger speedier boat and care little about racing take a look at the Hobie Miracle 20. I think the advice about flying a chute off of it should not be considered if this is why you are buying the boat. The Chute on a 20 is much more work that flying a chute from a Tiger. The one thing that complicates it is the overlapping jib that cannot be self tacking. The 20 goes pretty well downwind just doing the "wild thing".

Another reason not to put a chute on the 20 is that you will not get the price out of it for resale. That will cost about $2000 to add. $5000 boat cost plus $2000 is $7000. Now you are much closer for comparisons. Resale will be better on the Tiger as well. Kind of hard to sell a 20 in this market.

We went from a 20 to the Tiger because the racers in this area did. We were one of the last holdouts. We loved the feel of the 20. Compared to a 16 it is a thoroughbred. The first time we took our 20 out after many years on a 16 we almost rolled of the back, due to the acceleration.

Another consideration may be floatability. The Tiger actually floats better than a 20. It able to carry a bit more weight with ease. 15 lbs may not seem like much, which is the difference in class racing but the Formula weight is 330 which is 35 extra lbs to sail with, over the 295lbs for the 20.

Racing - Tiger
Just because( with cost considerations) - Hobie 20

Later,
Dan

I like the miracle but hate its line positioning. The boat handles great but the tramp is a nightmare. I suggest you sail one first. The Tigers deck is clean, well layed out. I feel the Tigers helm is quicker and more responsive. I like the chute on a miracle but the Tiger chute is more easily handled. Hold out and keep looking. Make offers in your range to Tiger sellers. Alot of those guys trade up every two years and with the infusion and capricorns on the scene they will be ready to take less. While they are getting the latest and greatest, your making a huge stride forward.

I may know of a used Tiger for sale soon. The owner is thinking about upgrading to a newer boat. I am waiting to hear what price it is.

Later,
Dan

20. We regularly go out with a Tiger guy to do some head to head for fun, and it takes him alot longer to rig and ready his boat for sailing than it does our 20. Plus, we have found in the heavy air, we can stay under control a bit better than they can on the Tiger. Now keep in mind, the experts on the Tigers will disagree. Those guys can kick ass in a hurricane on that boat, but the regular Joe is riding a bucking bronco compared to the smooth 20

Is the 20 going to be a more durable boat than the tiger? As far as beaching, surf, and general care. You kind of get spoiled by banging around a indestructible 16. I have a feeling the tiger is at a different level of $ and care, especially when things break.

You have to be careful with a 20, I know that, but neither is a 14/16. I had someone back into my 20 while she was on her trailer, put their trailer hitch right through the hull. I had a body guy in our town fix it and was back up an running in 2 days. Only $150 also. I don't know if the Tigger can be so easily fixed. I think that parts are easier to come by as well for the 20.

The Tiger seems like a strong design. The bulkheading inside the hulls is pretty incredible, and all the guys who've sailed both say that the Tiger is stiffer. I dropped my camera inside to take some pictures last time we built one (it's from the forward port looking aft past the dangerboard trunk).

http://www.thedoghouse.net/tiger_bulkheads.jpg

But plan on getting beach wheels, and a trailer either with double rollers or hull cradles.

Brian C

The 20 is stronger. Both are clamshell designs but the 20 has more meat at the seam. The Tiger has very little material at the seam and next to nothing at the daggers. The 20 can take beaching better and repairs better. The Tiger is a full on race boat, everything is as light as possible. Light weight = lower strenght. The miracle owners I know think nothing of sailing up the beach under spin, the tigers wouldn't even consider that move. The Nacras have the best clamshell build from what I've seen, alot of thickness at the seams. I sail an H18 because they are bombproof beach boats, wear them out and glass them back.