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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:53 am 
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I'm cleaning up some older EPO rudders and noticed that a black one felt lighter than a white one. I weighed them and the black one weighed 4 lbs, 5 ounces and a white weighed 5 lbs, 12 ounces. That's quite a difference. Both have been out of the water for a very long time so I don't believe there is any water-logging causing it. Were the white versions all that much heavier? Any other explanation? And Yes, I'm certain that the white one is not nylon.

Thanks,

Mark

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:07 am 
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It may not be nylon, but that doesn't mean it's an EPO.

The only white EPOs were some of the early EPO II rudders, so if this is a fiberglass rudder that was made before around 2005 likely it is a "Racing Rudder" not an EPO. After the original EPOs were discontinued sometime in the early 90's, Hobie built racing rudders which were a fiberglass rudder with white gelcoat. They were generally considered to be fine rudders. I would check for imperfections along the seam at the leading and trailing edges and clean up any areas that aren't smooth.

The reason original EPOs are so sought after is because they were among the lightest rudders ever built and have proven durability. But, I wouldn't be too concerned that the white rudder is a pound or so heavier. As long as its holding together and sails well, you should be fine.

sm


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:37 am 
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Thanks SM, that probably explains it. I didn't realize that there was a fiberglass version. So these are the four categories of rudders?

Stock (Nylon)
EPO (carbon)
EPO II (carbon)
Race (fiberglass)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:45 am 
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poolemarkw wrote:
Thanks SM, that probably explains it. I didn't realize that there was a fiberglass version. So these are the four categories of rudders?

Stock (Nylon)
EPO (carbon)
EPO II (carbon)
Race (fiberglass)

Actually, there are:

Original Stock (derived from H14) - injection molded ABS plastic (late 1960s to early 1970s)
Lexan Stock - injection molded Lexan polycarbonate (early 1970s to early 1990s)
Many 3rd party fiberglass rudders were sold during this period - in all colors
Original EPO - epoxy foam core fiberglass - 1984-1989 (sold as an upgrade)
Racer Rudders - polyester foam core fiberglass in black or white - 1990-2003
PCG - black rudders of indeterminate injection molded plastic - mid 1990s
New Stock - injection molded nylon - early 1990s - present
Euro Carbon - epoxy foam core clear carbon w/"Hobie Cat" down the blade - 2002 - 2005
EPO II - vinylester foam core carbon or carbon/Kevlar in white or clear coat - 2005-2013

Rumor is that there's a new rudder in the works - better than the EPO


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
MBounds wrote:
poolemarkw wrote:
Thanks SM, that probably explains it. I didn't realize that there was a fiberglass version. So these are the four categories of rudders?

Stock (Nylon)
EPO (carbon)
EPO II (carbon)
Race (fiberglass)

Actually, there are:

Original Stock (derived from H14) - injection molded ABS plastic (late 1960s to early 1970s)
Lexan Stock - injection molded Lexan polycarbonate (early 1970s to early 1990s)
Many 3rd party fiberglass rudders were sold during this period - in all colors
Original EPO - epoxy foam core fiberglass - 1984-1989 (sold as an upgrade)
Racer Rudders - polyester foam core fiberglass in black or white - 1990-2003
PCG - black rudders of indeterminate injection molded plastic - mid 1990s
New Stock - injection molded nylon - early 1990s - present
Euro Carbon - epoxy foam core clear carbon w/"Hobie Cat" down the blade - 2002 - 2005
EPO II - vinylester foam core carbon or carbon/Kevlar in white or clear coat - 2005-2013

Rumor is that there's a new rudder in the works - better than the EPO


My 88 has the Black Plastic Rudders. No idea if they were original or swapped out at some point.

Better than EPO, is that going to mean Cheaper?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:33 pm 
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sxrracer wrote:
MBounds wrote:
poolemarkw wrote:
Thanks SM, that probably explains it. I didn't realize that there was a fiberglass version. So these are the four categories of rudders?

Stock (Nylon)
EPO (carbon)
EPO II (carbon)
Race (fiberglass)

Actually, there are:

Original Stock (derived from H14) - injection molded ABS plastic (late 1960s to early 1970s)
Lexan Stock - injection molded Lexan polycarbonate (early 1970s to early 1990s)
Many 3rd party fiberglass rudders were sold during this period - in all colors
Original EPO - epoxy foam core fiberglass - 1984-1989 (sold as an upgrade)
Racer Rudders - polyester foam core fiberglass in black or white - 1990-2003
PCG - black rudders of indeterminate injection molded plastic - mid 1990s
New Stock - injection molded nylon - early 1990s - present
Euro Carbon - epoxy foam core clear carbon w/"Hobie Cat" down the blade - 2002 - 2005
EPO II - vinylester foam core carbon or carbon/Kevlar in white or clear coat - 2005-2013

Rumor is that there's a new rudder in the works - better than the EPO


My 88 has the Black Plastic Rudders. No idea if they were original or swapped out at some point.

Better than EPO, is that going to mean Cheaper?


I have black plastic on my '90, and I'm fairly certain they're original. Maybe the first PCG rudders were earlier than the mid 90's?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:59 pm 
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sxrracer wrote:
Better than EPO, is that going to mean Cheaper?

I'm not holding my breath on that one.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:03 pm 
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SNovak wrote:
I have black plastic on my '90, and I'm fairly certain they're original. Maybe the first PCG rudders were earlier than the mid 90's?
Could be. Dates are approximate on the PCG rudders (I never had a boat with them). All my boats since the mid-'80s have had either EPO, racer rudders, Euro Carbon or EPO IIs.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:04 pm 
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MBounds wrote:
sxrracer wrote:
Better than EPO, is that going to mean Cheaper?

I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Lol


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:14 am 
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MBounds wrote:
sxrracer wrote:
Better than EPO, is that going to mean Cheaper?

I'm not holding my breath on that one.


I was talking to a dealer the other day about picking up a set of epo2's and he was saying the current stock of carbon finish rudders is nearly dried up and the replacements which will be mostly white with carbon fiber visible trailing edge should be in soon.

Price point was expected to be roughly the same.

At least that is the rumor I heard

I didn't ask about any profile change or anything of the sort






I haven't convinced myself to not try and make a set yet. (yeah. I am a nut)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:03 am 
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
Dear Mr. Nut,

If you do make your own rudders they can't be used in class racing:

RUDDERS AND RUDDER ASSEMBLIES
HOBIE CAT CO. supplied rudder assemblies and rudder blades shall not be modified except for minimum filing to improve fit and function unless specifically allowed in the individual boat rules.


Except in the Hobie 16 class.
1. RUDDERS AND RUDDER ASSEMBLIES
1.1 Rudder blades made of another material, yet conforming to the size, shape and minimum weight of the standard rudder blades, may be used. Rudder blades must conform within the minimum and maximum dimensions that are found within the profile plans. Profile plans are available through the IHCA.


However, that being said, if you go into production I think I'd like a set for my Wave.

Thanks

Charles


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:07 am 
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Not everybody races!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:14 am 
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Quote:
Not everybody races!!!!!!!!!!!!!


EVERYONE SHOULD!!!! :D






Doesn't that say so long as they are the same size, shape, and weigh enough I can use them?

http://www.hobieclass.com/site/hobie/ih ... 050612.pdf


Rudder blades made of another material, yet
conforming to the size, shape and minimum
weight of the standard rudder blades, may be
used. Rudder blades must conform within the
minimum and maximum dimensions that are
found within the profile plans. Profile plans are
available through the IHCA.


The maximum thickness of a rudder blade(s)
shall not exceed 1.015 in. (25.8 mm.), tapering
over a distance of 2 ft. (60.96 cm) to a maxi-
mum thickness of 1/2 in. (12.7 mm), 2 in. (50.8
mm) from the bottom tip of the rudder. These
dimensions are for reference purposes only.
Please refer to profile plans for exact dimen-
sions. Profile plans are available through the
IHCA.





I plan on making a set from cedar copying an EPO profile with only very very minor changes (I suspect the same changes made to the EPO 2)...

The goal is sometime this summer...

instructions here..

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... 00_448.pdf


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:33 am 
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BigWhoop wrote:
Dear Mr. Nut,

If you do make your own rudders they can't be used in class racing:

Not entirely correct....



ronholm wrote:
[Doesn't that say so long as they are the same size, shape, and weigh enough I can use them?

Exactly. You can make your own rudders as long as they conform to the class spec requirements (H14 & H16 Classes only).

sm


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:41 am 
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
As a life skill tip, sometimes it's better if you read (and understand, I guess) all the post before rebutting.

"Except in the Hobie 16 class."


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