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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:58 am 
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One can't remain unaware of the incredible changes going on in sailing. The most obvious one right now is the Americas Cup and the extraordinary technology and the more extraordinary quantum of dollars spent trying to win yachting's Holy Grail.
The use of composites such as carbon fiber, Kevlar and dynemma have been around for a while. So have solid wing sails.Now we are seeing 72 foot Yachts climbing out of the water on their foils - actually on their leeward foils. The engineering is incredible, the applied technology amazing.

What is going to be the effect on "ordinary" sailing?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:11 pm 
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This is interesting topic, but you may want to move it to

Open Forum - Sailing

This section is dedicated to H17/FX.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:20 am 
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Probably Jack B, thanks for the suggestion.

Over time you sort of get to "know" some of the people in the H17 section of the forum, and that's why I inquired here first.

It is not irrelevant to H17/FX1 owners. That's because without Hobie support, both classes have entered their twilight time, and many owners are going to need to think about their next boat. Some have already moved to Vipers, A-Class or other. Both these examples embrace new technologies, especially the A-class.

So if you are considering a new boat now or later, in many cases part of the decision making process is assessing the future for the next boat. That might include the sale value of a boat too - think about the market for Tornado's now that it has lost Olympic favour. Or even F18's, given the selection of the Nacra 17 for Olympic.

I would like to hear what the H17/Fx1 group are thinking. But if someone wants to kick into Open Forum that's fine, but that is also saying that H17/FX1 folks have no opinion and I don't believe that :)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:11 am 
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gmhendo wrote:
That's because without Hobie support, both classes have entered their twilight time, and many owners are going to need to think about their next boat. Some have already moved to Vipers, A-Class or other. Both these examples embrace new technologies, especially the A-class.


I do share this painful sentiment with you. Even bigger issue IMO is lack of modern replacement for H16. Check the beating H16 got in Olympic selection process

http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/MultihullEvaluationPanelReport-%5B12449%5D.pdf

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Thanks jackB I had not seen that. The Nacra was a clear winner. I have not seen Nacras as forefront innovators themselves and I don't know whether the N17 heralds a change, or maybe they have intelligently cherry-picked the newer ideas and made them work in the 17?

Curved foils are a bit trendy right now - but while the top A-class sailors can make them work to advantage most of the time, many are struggling with pitch control especially at higher speeds. The emerging answer might be winglets on the rudders to advance pitch stability - being assessed right now. If so then expect a rush of curved foils - but wait, look at the NZ AC72 - it uses a quite different foil approach to the US AC72. SO the technology is emerging and until settled by class management (rules) or by a clear winning technology who knows.
If you are interested, the i14 has adjustable in real time winglets on its rudder. The skipper adjusts the pitch by twisting the tiller...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:19 pm 
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gmhendo wrote:
The Nacra was a clear winner.


I would not say that. It narrowly beat out the Viper in the selection process. The Viper still should've been chosen just for the fact that no one has their boat yet. Had the Viper been selected any team who was looking to campaign for Rio could've probably secured a boat before the end of that day.


As far as the future of beach cat sailing? Business as usually. We're damn near the tightest when it comes to money of just about any sport. Not too many are going to cough up the cash when it costs an extra $2-3k on top of an already $25,000 boat for a set of alphabet boards.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:31 pm 
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Karl I looked at the score cards from jackB's post and I thought it was very clear that the Nacra was well in front.
But I take your point about availability and cost. However the availability to Olympic sailors does not bother me too much at this time - those guys seem to be able to sail anything well.
And sooner or later beach cats need replacing, and so do beach cat sailors. I am betting that entry level junior sailors are going to be looking for better boats. We have a big battle going here between Optimist and Bic boats - kids flock to the Bics compared to the Optimist or Sabot. (World Bic series in Florida this week, hopefully weather will be kind). The Bic looks like a boat, the others like bathtubs.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:18 am 
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Unless someone builds a fire under the Hobie Corporation, I do not see too much cutting edge coming our way unless it comes from Hobie Europe. But if I had an input:
~ 17 ft with wave piercing semetric hulls, curved centerboards and enough volume for a crew of 1 - 2 (150 - 400 lbs).
3 sails: SquareTop boomless Main, furling Jib (self tacking optional) and choice of spinnaker OR Hooter.
6:1 main sheet and 6:1 down haul
AND WINGS - I love the wings

Mast options - carbon fiber, aluminum (with or without comptip)?????


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:51 am 
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gmhendo wrote:
Karl I looked at the score cards from jackB's post and I thought it was very clear that the Nacra was well in front.


and that was only part of the selection process.



As far as another new boat goes.. Really? Things have kinda moulded themselves back into successful and growing formula classes. A-Cat, F18, F16. Why splinter that farther with more odd ducks?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:38 am 
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Matt, tell me it isn't so. Does Hobie America only currently offer 2 fiberglas boats, the H16 and Wild Cat? What happened to the FXOne????? What happened to the Tiger???? :o :shock: :? :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:57 am 
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wild cat replaced the tiger, and really only one boat because the wild cat is imported from Europe

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:44 pm 
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That could change rapidly. As I wrote earlier, Hobie US and Hobie Europe is now one company.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:21 pm 
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not rapidly. and dont hold your breath. in a perfect world all of those euro hobies would be avail to import here, even if expensive, at least the option would be there. this isnt a perfect world however. just keep in mind Hobie USA is in love with rotomolded plastic crafts. that is where the money is coming from at the moment (kayak sales), albeit they are more enthusiastic about marketing these kook crafts and ignoring the glass boats. they are catering to the joe-schmoe dorky person because at the momnet its hip and cool to be out on the water. kayaks take very little skill, easy learn curve. glass cats are complicated and more expensive, need storage space, etc...

kayaks are easy. cheap and easy to get the kooky dork out on the water thinking he is cool and extreme. easy target for Hobies marketing team.

hard to blame hobie - tough sell to get folks excited about a hobie 16 at 11k...let alone a wildact cat at 25k.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:31 pm 
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I think things would have been more likely to change rapidly if it were Hobie Europe purchasing Hobie USA, as opposed to vice versa.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:52 pm 
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gino wrote:

kayaks are easy. cheap and easy to get the kooky dork out on the water thinking he is cool and extreme. easy target for Hobies marketing team.



:lol: careful! there are a lot of kayakers on this forum! :twisted:

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