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 Post subject: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:32 am 
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Hi,

I just wondered why don't Hobie fit anti-pitchpole fins as standard to its boats?

I kind of understand that for existing boats it wouldn't be class legal for racing but surely if new boats either had them designed into the hull shape or fitted as standard it would be class legal.

Just find it a bit strange that boats that are prone to pitch poling (as many cats are), are sold with the problem inherent rather than either designing it out through hull design (ie shaping an anti pitchpole design into the top end of the hull moulding) or if the hulls are kept the same for moulding or design reasons, not supplying them fitted with devices fixed on as standard.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 710
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Speaking from personal experience.....as many of do.....

when you lose concentration at a critical moment
and the weight is too far forward,
and there is chop,
and the gust hits, and the sails are sheeted in too tight,
yes, it's time to go swimming.

Even the multi-million dollar AC72 had a bad pitchpole
(Google AC72).

Welcome to the world of cat sailing.

The secret is not some bolt-on gadget, but learning to 'read the signs'
and avoiding those 'bumps in the road.' Mileage helps.

Good winds....

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1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Location: San Diego, CA
I have seen the "anti-pitchpole"... things offered for the Hobie 16 and their aspect ratio is... World War I?

How about replacing them with foil technology that is no more than, say, 20 years old? Something that would not stall, stopping the boat, increasing the tipping moment, but actually lift the bow?

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:56 am 
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Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Stand by folks, I'll let you know the answer at the end of this summer.
My response is to mount a spinnaker.
Supposed to 'lift' the bow.
Knowing me, I may yet find interesting ways to go swimming.
My buddies in I 14's and Toronado's also spend time in the water....
so I won't be alone.

cheers

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1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:00 am 
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John Lunn wrote:

The secret is not some bolt-on gadget, but learning to 'read the signs'
and avoiding those 'bumps in the road.' Mileage helps.

Good winds....


I gather from those who have them fitted though that can really help avoid some pitchpoles. So surely they're worth it.

I mean you can avoid some accidents without brakes in your car by steering round the obstacle but does that mean you'd drive in a car without brakes?

Surely anything that helps cats perform more like monohulls in the forward stability sense has to be worthwhile.

Like I say I can understand class considerations on existing boats but as there is some talk on here of a new Hobie 16 design, surely on the next gen Hobie boats it would make good sense to design a foil shape into the end of the forward hull that would drive the hull back out of the water if it became submerged or at the very least add a device to prevent pitchpoling at the factory if for some reason it couldn't be designed in.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
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Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Even the best sailors in the world have pitchpoled....
Google AC72 and see the Sept 29th 'incident'.....
and those guys are 'rock star' sailors.

How many sailboats do you know of that have brakes?

That's why we learn to set a course and set our sails according to the conditions.
And then concentrate on technique, and sometimes, yes, we go swimming.
The gadgets can help, but will not necessarily prevent a pitchpole.

All of us have plenty of stories.....usually things start to happen when a hull lifts in the
air, and we slip on the tramp....which can happen in chop. Learn to recognize the signs,
and how to minimize the damage.

And enjoy your sailing

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1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:51 pm 
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John I appreciate that you can't prevent pitchpoling entirely.

However, any device or improved hull design that can cut down its frequency surely has to lead to a much more enjoyable sailing experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:42 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Sarasota Sailing Squadron
I think pitchpoling makes it more interesting, it makes you pay attention

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:41 pm 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Alsone wrote:
John I appreciate that you can't prevent pitchpoling entirely.

However, any device or improved hull design that can cut down its frequency surely has to lead to a much more enjoyable sailing experience.


it's part of the fun. where's the fun in sailing a boat that can't maim you at any moment in heavier winds?

are you going to get more stories from a boat that's designed not to pitchpole, or one that does occasionally?

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
Hmmm,.. you make it sound so appealing.

For me, I guess it would depend on the water temperature. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
NOHUHU wrote:
Hmmm,.. you make it sound so appealing.

For me, I guess it would depend on the water temperature. :wink:


I try :D

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Friends of mine have the anti-pitchpole devices on their H14s and I tease them about the training wheels, but they do work and it allows them to push the boat a bit harder. They don't keep you from pitchpolling, but the push back the point where it will be unrecoverable. :wink:


Last edited by fastcat on Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:13 am 
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optikid wrote:
I think pitchpoling makes it more interesting, it makes you pay attention


Yeah but you're not going to stop it entirely which still retains some excitement.

From the reports I've seen those with the current anti-pitchpoling foils added still suffer pitchpoles, just not as frequently. There's a limit to what a foil can recover from.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:42 pm
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Location: Sarasota Sailing Squadron
the more you flip the better you learn how to stop it and you can push it just as hard a one with out one

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1983 Hobie 16 Cat fever #55697
2008 Laser Radial/4.7 #190471
S.S.S.
S.Y.S.P


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Pitchpole
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Quote:
the more you flip the better you learn how to stop it and you can push it just as hard a one with out one

You most certainly can drive the boat just as hard with or without. You will just crash more often without. The H14 and H16, due to the banana shaped hulls, are pitchpole machines
Personally, I do not care for them, they are sort of like training wheelsand I don't like 'sharp' objects sticking out from the front of my boat. The term RAMMING SPEED comes into mind. I sailed a H16 for 20 years and never used them. But if they get you out pushing it in heaver conditions, so be it.


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