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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:42 pm 
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Location: Lafayette, La, USA
I've been looking at all the models, and today I got a good long look and explanation at dealer at the Revo. Then reading these Revo sailing threads has really got my attention. I still would love an AI, but this might be a reasonable start.

I'm just the usual fisherman/sailer/puddler, not exceptional at anything in particular, but this boat sounds like it has the most versatility for me to do it all. If I was to find a used one (Revo or AI) within shooting distance (Louisiana) I'd do it now. I hate buying stuff new, but it may come to that.

What kind of mph is reasonable for sailing the Revo, even with its sailkit limitations ?
Are we talking faster than reasonable long distance Mirage pedaling speed?
The whole sail kit can be stashed inside the hull? Along with the sidekick kit ?

I see myself going out fishing, then sailing/goofing off at midday for return trip when winds are typically higher.

Mark

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2010 Hobie Revolution *sold
2010 Hobie Outback
One Ocean Storm cedar stripbuilt
2009 Native Ultimate 12


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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm
Posts: 518
Location: Auckland NZ
I sail the AI and an Adventure.

Comparing Adventure & Revolution - I haven't been on a Revolution but have sailed an Outback and an Outfitter (neither has a daggerbooard) - the Adventure will be the better sailer because it is equipped with a daggerboard (optional extra) which will allow it to sail significantly better upwind - if you intend to sail in tidal waters I would recommend the use of the daggerboard.

You also need the larger (sailing) rudder and you need to run the sheet through small blocks to reduce the friction in this rope so that when you need to let it go the sail depowers instantly.

The Adventure can be upgraded to an AI though this route is apparently more expensive than buying an AI upfront; and the AI hull can be used/sailed as a kayak (rather than a trimaran) if you make an adapter (cheap & relatively easy - see posts on this forum) to allow the small sail to fit into the AI mastbase -then you get the advantage of a roller furling sail on your kayak. The AI comes with larger rudder, daggerboard and some suitable blocks (quite big ones for the larger sail).

Sailing speed is dependant upon wind speed and point of sail (i.e. with/across/against the wind) but bear in mind that these kayak sails are not for use in strong winds unless you are very brave/skilful/foolhardy. That said you can get 2-3.5-4.5 knots out of the boat under sail: I have had 5.5-6 knots (GPS) sailing on a broad reach in a blow with a scrap of sail up (a benefit of roller reefing !). While this is a creditable speed across the ground, sailing direction & speed is dependant on wind direction too and a kayak under paddle/pedal power can set a course directly towards an objective which may not be possible under sail so the sailing kayak may take longer to arrive at the destination even though it may have travelled faster.

By way of comparison I typically pedal my Adventure at a consistent 4.5 knots on a half an hour trip and 3.5 knots on an all day excursion (using Turbo fins). The AI can be very quick under sail - maybe 4-8-10 knots depending on wind & water conditions) but it is a wet ride at higher speed.

The small sail can be stowed inside the Adventure for transport but you would be hard pushed to stow the boat inside the hull & then take it out of the hull and deploy it while on the water.

When I take my sail on a trip (which is nearly always - I only leave it if I know that the wind is going to be too strong) I push the foot of the mast into a bungee loop tied round one of the front hatch closure bungees and the back of the mast I secure beside the seat with a tie down - the mast then lies along the gunwale of the boat. A rod in the rod holder will also help secure it. Stowing the sail on the gunwale with the top of the mast forwards is not a good idea as the head of the sail tends to flop open and catch in the water.

To stow inside the Adventure (don't know if this will work with the Revo) - take the sail off the mast & stow it; take the mast apart and you can with a bit of a squeeze get it into the boat via the front hatch. Be careful with the mast though cos if the two halves are connected with a bungee the mast can get stuck inside the boat by the two halves of the mast sliding backwards inside the boat and then forward wrapping the bungee around one of the plastic pillars inside the boat - then to get the mast out you will need to cut the bungee (do you catch the 'experienced' tone of this little nugget of info? My mast no longer has a bungee... !).

I don't use the sidekicks - I have a trimaran (AI) and I much prefer to sail my AI hull as a kayak than as a trimaran - the outriggers IMHO detract from the sailing experience; yes there is more risk of going over (happened to me again but for only the 3rd time in 5-6years last weekend) but this makes the enterprise more skilful and engaging (only my opinion).

Either way, if you have an interest in sailing I don't think you wil be disappointed by either of these boats: they are very engaging little craft to sail and, because you can only sail in relatively benign conditions, every sailing experience tends to be a pleasant one !

Enjoy.


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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:35 pm
Posts: 152
Location: Pensacola Florida
Mnormand,
the Revo is a great and fast sail craft with the Spring Creek AMA setup. KBTEACHME has a video of his setup and sailing. It sold me and is a great addition to my revo. I really wanted the AI also but I didn't like the big weight and setup. If I was to trailer a yak thats what I would have bought. But the Revo is lighter and more versatile. I mounted the S/C amas behind the seat and in between the seat and Hobie Livewell. This allows me to slide the amas in right next to the hull for fishing and extend/slide them out if I want to stand-up fish or sail. Adjustments,,,, all while sitting, I barely need to even turn my body. The cross bar is a slide and lock button set-up that the arms slide into and out of the main cross member. The actual ama floats are of hard molded poly plastic and are very hydrodynamically designed. The drag is minimal due to this. Look them up on google. Spring Creek.com. the various colors are matched to the Creative design kayaks, they do not match Hobie colors. I'm painting mine with the same acrylic paint that I used on the Hobie Livewell. I had the paint mixed up at a local Napa auto parts shop. It has held up perfectly for over a year now. Send me your email address and I'll try to send you the video link that KBTEACHME sent to me. It is too big to post.

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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:37 am
Posts: 95
Location: Lafayette, La, USA
Sammy, I'm getting close to getting the Hobie sail kit soon. And probably the Spring Creek kit too. Can I ask to send that link to mnormand at petrolog dot com or just PM here.

Other questions:

Does the sail mast break down for storage inside the Revo? Can you do this while on the water? I fish often in flooded cypress timber, leaving it up probably not the best idea. Having the mast brush a large red wasp nest would get interesting real quick :lol:

What would be the simplest and best Spring Creek arm length for sailing, then fishing in the Revo? I'm like you, I want to pull those floats in close as possible for fishing and puddling around, and minimize any extrusion etc. I think the arms are offered in various lengths? How does this affect paddling when they are tucked in closely? I see now that pulling them in right next to the boat is not quite possible? Any close up pics of the Revo / SC setups & configurations would be very much appreciated.

Our local dealer has these little hand wood paddles that are pretty cool, they have a hook at the end for grabbling dock, rope, branches, etc. Meant to skull you around one handed rather than using paddle for slight sideways or reverse positioning etc. Anyone using anything like this for fishing in trees etc? Looks like a pretty good idea for minor movements. Can store right behind the seat for quick access.

I'm so glad I bought this particular boat!

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2010 Hobie Revolution *sold
2010 Hobie Outback
One Ocean Storm cedar stripbuilt
2009 Native Ultimate 12


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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:16 am 
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Location: Pensacola Florida
mnormand,
see this earlier posting. His setup is a lil to far back for my use and I modified for the Hobie livewell use and easy access. BTW I sent a PM to you.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=12914&p=90870&hilit=Revo+Sailing+video+Via+S%2FC+AMAs#p90870

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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Location: Pensacola Florida
sorry mnormand, you'll now need to contact kbteachme for the video link. he decided to password protect it so everyone would need to go thru him I guess. :?

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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:29 pm
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Location: Houston, TX
sammy925 wrote:
Mnormand,
the Revo is a great and fast sail craft with the Spring Creek AMA setup. KBTEACHME has a video of his setup and sailing. It sold me and is a great addition to my revo. I really wanted the AI also but I didn't like the big weight and setup. If I was to trailer a yak thats what I would have bought. But the Revo is lighter and more versatile. I mounted the S/C amas behind the seat and in between the seat and Hobie Livewell. This allows me to slide the amas in right next to the hull for fishing and extend/slide them out if I want to stand-up fish or sail. Adjustments,,,, all while sitting, I barely need to even turn my body. The cross bar is a slide and lock button set-up that the arms slide into and out of the main cross member. The actual ama floats are of hard molded poly plastic and are very hydrodynamically designed. The drag is minimal due to this. Look them up on google. Spring Creek.com. the various colors are matched to the Creative design kayaks, they do not match Hobie colors. I'm painting mine with the same acrylic paint that I used on the Hobie Livewell. I had the paint mixed up at a local Napa auto parts shop. It has held up perfectly for over a year now. Send me your email address and I'll try to send you the video link that KBTEACHME sent to me. It is too big to post.


Hey is this it? http://store.springcreek.com/Stabilizer ... p1581.html

I was looking into the Hobie blowup ama for stand and fish but this might work way better. I'd love to see a pic of your Revo with those on. Do you have anything rigged up as a balance platform, or is it easy enough to stand and fish with only the S/C amas? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:23 am 
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Location: Pensacola Florida
Yup those are the ones I have. Mounted aft between the livewell and seat. There is a small gap when sitting back,(reclined) between the livewell and seat,,,and you'll never know the crossmember is there plus you have arm lenght access to raise, lower, or extend them. The supplied mounting brackets are very lacking so I did my own with a local machine shop. Standing up is a practiced thing. I do it even without the S/Cs on. Chin tuck ed to chest, knees on chest, hands on sides of gunnel and push off hands, roll up forward to the flat area around the hatch. But when they are extended just stand right up. I stand/sight fish from the flat crossbar. Perfect for me!!!! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Location: Houston, TX
sammy925 wrote:
Yup those are the ones I have. Mounted aft between the livewell and seat. There is a small gap when sitting back,(reclined) between the livewell and seat,,,and you'll never know the crossmember is there plus you have arm lenght access to raise, lower, or extend them. The supplied mounting brackets are very lacking so I did my own with a local machine shop. Standing up is a practiced thing. I do it even without the S/Cs on. Chin tuck ed to chest, knees on chest, hands on sides of gunnel and push off hands, roll up forward to the flat area around the hatch. But when they are extended just stand right up. I stand/sight fish from the flat crossbar. Perfect for me!!!! :wink:



You stand on the crossbar? LoL - do you come from a family of circus preformers :lol: :lol: :lol: J/K Seriously though, it looks like they would work well for stand and fish. The only reservation I have is some of the marsh I fish is pretty tight, will they adjust pretty close up to the side of the boat? And is that adjustment easy to make while you're on the water?

I'm concerned a little about getting hung up on stuff, but if they will adjust pretty close in to the boat it shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks for all your info!


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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:45 am 
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Location: Houston, TX
I think I might try this setup before rigging the full outrigger.

http://www.harmonygear.com/product/2038 ... ponson_Kit

my only need for them will be stand and fish, no sailing for now. I'm wondering if just the sponsoons wouldn't work just as well for my application.


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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:15 am 
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Location: Pensacola Florida
I looked at the harmony gear also but I can not see how they would provide anything more than secondary stability. For sight fishing I wanted solid They seem too flimsy and at that price??? I just went with what I knew I would eventually want. If I was to do the harmony thing I would first look at getting some large diameter pool noodles and attach them the same way, much cheaper and no worry of leaks. My gear can be placed tight to the side and there really is no worry of marsh grass issues. If there were it would be in an area where you would have difficulty pushing the yak thru to begin with, and even then they would just slide over the top. To extend them or retract you push a release button (same type as the Hobie paddle) and slide them in or out of the crossmember. Up and down is a hand turn knob to release the grip action on the attachment,,,just loosen and slide up or down.

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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:14 am 
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sammy925 wrote:
I looked at the harmony gear also but I can not see how they would provide anything more than secondary stability. For sight fishing I wanted solid They seem too flimsy and at that price??? I just went with what I knew I would eventually want. If I was to do the harmony thing I would first look at getting some large diameter pool noodles and attach them the same way, much cheaper and no worry of leaks. My gear can be placed tight to the side and there really is no worry of marsh grass issues. If there were it would be in an area where you would have difficulty pushing the yak thru to begin with, and even then they would just slide over the top. To extend them or retract you push a release button (same type as the Hobie paddle) and slide them in or out of the crossmember. Up and down is a hand turn knob to release the grip action on the attachment,,,just loosen and slide up or down.



Sammy, thanks for the info man. You are right for basically 100 bucks more I could have the Spring Creek setup wich I'm sure would provide much more stability. To be honest, I have no idea which will work best for my application until I just try one. I really like the S/C setup, it appears to be well built and people on hear seeem to really think highly of it. I may try the ram mount rod holders with PVC arms and lobster float bouys first, just for cheapness and since I only need it for standing and not sailing. Don't have much too loose by trying that first, if I don't like it I still have 2 usable ram mount rod holders. If that idea doesn't work, I'll likely go the S/C route. :D


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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:54 am 
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Sounds like a plan. I think those will work and it is cheap. I've heard good reports of that setup. The Ram tube might not work as well as the Scotty. The Ram tubes don't exactly lock in place where as the scotty can which will provide solid support for you when you list to one side putting pressure on the assembly. I drilled and pinned my Ram Tubes thru the ball mount because of this issue with my rods. If a biggun hits it could pull the tube down and the rod slide out(yes its still leashed). I used 3/16s x 2.00 inches push button locking pins.

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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:03 am 
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All good stuff, Sammy thx for your assist on that video. I did finally see it, and it was helpful.

I'm just stalling for no good reason, I'm pretty much sold on the SC and sail setup. Having a lot of fun pedaling as it is, thats for sure. Lazy steathly cruising is just so enjoyable, I'm constantly sneaking up on stuff :lol: :lol:

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2010 Hobie Revolution *sold
2010 Hobie Outback
One Ocean Storm cedar stripbuilt
2009 Native Ultimate 12


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 Post subject: Re: sailing the revo
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:05 pm 
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sammy925 wrote:
Sounds like a plan. I think those will work and it is cheap. I've heard good reports of that setup. The Ram tube might not work as well as the Scotty. The Ram tubes don't exactly lock in place where as the scotty can which will provide solid support for you when you list to one side putting pressure on the assembly. I drilled and pinned my Ram Tubes thru the ball mount because of this issue with my rods. If a biggun hits it could pull the tube down and the rod slide out(yes its still leashed). I used 3/16s x 2.00 inches push button locking pins.



Is the knob on there not meant to lock it down?

I guess the knob only locks the bottom part down? There are 2 parts that move, the part that attaches to the ball (which the knob locks in place) then the rod holder part moves seperatly (this part doesn't lock in stock format). That right?

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