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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:53 am 
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First, let me admit that I don't know what this part is called.

All 4 of these areas on my 17S have this to some degree, this one being the worst.

Does this need repair, can it be repaired, how do I repair it.

Is it superficial, or is there something deep and dangerous going on,

Thanks,

DanL

http://s736.photobucket.com/albums/xx10 ... C_3316.jpg


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:38 am 
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Looks like crossbars have been racking. Loose on the hulls?

I have no wisdom, but looks like wear at load point problem. I will say this, you are an inspiration for hanging in there!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:18 pm 
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Looks pretty serious. You will definitely have to rebuild the cross bar sockets. Take the boat apart (remove the crossbars). Remove the gel-coat from the affected areas. Remove cast aluminum crossbar holder things (end caps). Use a syringe and heavy gauge needle (14-16 G) to inject fiberglass resin into the cracks, try to fill from the inside out (no air pockets) clamp if possible or you can use SS sheet metal screws instead of clamping (pre-drill pilot holes first). Then gel coat when done. In lieu of gel-coat you can use a marine epoxy. Good luck. :wink:


Last edited by fastcat on Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:15 am 
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JJ wrote:
Looks like crossbars have been racking. Loose on the hulls?

I have no wisdom, but looks like wear at load point problem. I will say this, you are an inspiration for hanging in there!


Not sure what choice I have , but to hang in there. This boat has more repair resin on it than original. But it owes me nothing.

And as you know, these 17s don't grow on trees.

My main concern is safety. I don't want things flying apart and hurting someone I love (or me, for that matter)...

Dan L


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:23 am 
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fastcat wrote:
Looks pretty serious. You will definitely have to rebuild the cross bar sockets. Tale the boat apart (remove the crossbars). Remove the gel-coat from the affected areas. Remove cast aluminum crossbar holder things. Use a syringe and heavy gauge needle (14-16 G) to inject fiberglass resin into the cracks, clamp if possible or you can use SS sheet metal screws instead of clamping (pre-drill pilot holes first). Then gel coat when done. In lieu of gel-coat you can use a marine epoxy. Good luck. :wink:


Kinda what I was figuring. I'm not too sure on the method here.

1. Take apart

2. Scratch head for a while...

3. Do you think I essentially want to follow the procedure that has been posted before on re-setting the cross bars to remove the play, and then do the repair on the damaged skin from outside in?

or something else?

Based on reading that other thread, I'm going to need to get in there to put release agents in there so I don't permanently glue these pieces together, no?

When I re-set these pieces, do you think I need filler in the Epoxy (was planning on using West System), or will just the epoxy itself do the trick.

I am open to any suggestions.

4. More head scratching.

(I left out the steps where I run in and open a beer, followed by more head scratching)

Thanks,

Dan L


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:34 am 
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Start by taking the crossbars off and removing the end castings (by the looks of it, they may just fall out). Then get out your dremel and remove the gelcoat from all the cracks so you can actually see how bad your problem is. There are almost certainly cracked/broken glass fibers. Simply pouring or injecting resin in there isn't going to cut it. You need to remove any damaged fiberglass (by grinding) and re-build with new glass.

sm


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:13 am 
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I have to disagree with SRM. If the fiberglass that needs repairing is clean and dry, then resin with clamping or screws will do the job. The resin will re-bond the loose fibers. It is important to fill from in-to-out so you don't get air bubbles and to then clamp or screw to get good fiber-to-fiber contact. Without the fiber-to-fiber contact SRM is right, resin alone won't cut it. Prior to the resin work, use some acetone to rinse out the area and let dry thoroughly. Before replacing the end caps fill the 3 screw holes with resin and let harden, then drill new pilot holes. Also for the end castings I use Marine 5200 to set/seal them into place. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:18 am 
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fastcat, let me see if I have this right.

after removing the pieces, clean the fiberglass part of the hull with acetone & let dry.
then...

1. inject resin (will West System epoxy resin work here? filled? or unfilled?) I am assuming I do this without putting the end casting back on yet, because you want me to eventually fill those screw holes, which would be done at a later step, correct?

2.Clamp or screw the outer skin of the fiberglass part down in order to compress and hold the pieces together while the epoxy resin cures.

3. after that has cured, then fill the screw holes and let that cure,

4. then drill new pilot holes.

5. then set the end casting in, using the Marine 5200 as a sealant between the endcap and the fiberglass. (any problem in future if I need to get that piece off again? do I use a release agent, or would that defeat the purpose of using the sealant?)

6.Put my boat back together. (actually all for of these endcaps need this, but...)

Dan L


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:20 am 
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fastcat wrote:
If the fiberglass that needs repairing is clean and dry, then resin with clamping or screws will do the job. The resin will re-bond the loose fibers.


You can try that, but from the picture, it looked like the glass was most likely cracked. In general, you would want to replace any broken glass fibers with new glass in order to repair the hull back to original strength. If the glass is actually cracked and you just try to glue the pieces together, it is very likely that it will split apart again the next time it's flexed hard.

First step should be to remove some of the gelcoat around the cracks to determine the true extent of the damage. Then decide the best way to repair.

sm


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:30 am 
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I'd call it major.

The glass structure here is critical to the hull / crossbar connection. You can't simply glue it back together here. This will require some new glass and bonding back down into the glass inside the saddle area.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Per SRM and Matt - new glass is a good way to go, but you still have the interface between the new and old glass. You can add a couple new layers of glass to 'beef up' the repair without adding too much thickness.

Quote:
1. inject resin (will West System epoxy resin work here? Yes I would use the epoxy resin (not the polyester) filled? (if the crack is wide enough. You can also put some cut up fibers in the cracks, but make sure the resin saturates them) or unfilled?) I am assuming I do this without putting the end casting back on yet, because you want me to eventually fill those screw holes, which would be done at a later step, correct? The end casting go back on after the fiberglas repair is complete. You can fill the screw holes whenever you have the resin made up. The point here is to make new tighter holes for the end casting reattachment.

2.Clamp or screw the outer skin of the fiberglass part down in order to compress and hold the pieces together while the epoxy resin cures. I think I would use the SS screws for the added strength. They remain in as part of the repair (covered by the gelcoat/epoxy).

3. after that has cured, then fill the screw holes and let that cure, (this can be done any time)

4. then drill new pilot holes. Yes

5. then set the end casting in, using the Marine 5200 as a sealant between the endcap and the fiberglass. (any problem in future if I need to get that piece off again? do I use a release agent, or would that defeat the purpose of using the sealant?) No release agent, the point is to make a strong, water tight seal. Marine 5200 is like a super silicone with no shrinkage (it takes a week to dry)
6.Put my boat back together. (actually all for of these endcaps need this, but...)


Good Luck

On the side, I just got back from 6 days of sailing at Wallula Gap in winds 5 -30 mph. I have a bit of repair myself after hitting 2 large underwater boulders on a reach going about 10 - 12 knots. I damaged both bows and shattered the port centerboard. Knocked the centerboard clean out of the trunk and lost the spring. Fortunately I had 2 spare boards and springs (only 1 spare of each now) and the trunk was undamaged. I did a quick marine epoxy mend to the bows on the beach (works on wet materials, even underwater) and was back out on the water 4 hours later. Now I have to remove the patches and do a proper repair, the starboard bow has some delamination to deal with also. :( :? :wink: 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:53 pm 
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fastcat wrote:
Per SRM and Matt - new glass is a good way to go, but you still have the interface between the new and old glass. You can add a couple new layers of glass to 'beef up' the repair without adding too much thickness.

Quote:
1. inject resin (will West System epoxy resin work here? Yes I would use the epoxy resin (not the polyester) filled? (if the crack is wide enough. You can also put some cut up fibers in the cracks, but make sure the resin saturates them) or unfilled?) I am assuming I do this without putting the end casting back on yet, because you want me to eventually fill those screw holes, which would be done at a later step, correct? The end casting go back on after the fiberglas repair is complete. You can fill the screw holes whenever you have the resin made up. The point here is to make new tighter holes for the end casting reattachment.

2.Clamp or screw the outer skin of the fiberglass part down in order to compress and hold the pieces together while the epoxy resin cures. I think I would use the SS screws for the added strength. They remain in as part of the repair (covered by the gelcoat/epoxy).

3. after that has cured, then fill the screw holes and let that cure, (this can be done any time)

4. then drill new pilot holes. Yes

5. then set the end casting in, using the Marine 5200 as a sealant between the endcap and the fiberglass. (any problem in future if I need to get that piece off again? do I use a release agent, or would that defeat the purpose of using the sealant?) No release agent, the point is to make a strong, water tight seal. Marine 5200 is like a super silicone with no shrinkage (it takes a week to dry)
6.Put my boat back together. (actually all for of these endcaps need this, but...)


Good Luck

On the side, I just got back from 6 days of sailing at Wallula Gap in winds 5 -30 mph. I have a bit of repair myself after hitting 2 large underwater boulders on a reach going about 10 - 12 knots. I damaged both bows and shattered the port centerboard. Knocked the centerboard clean out of the trunk and lost the spring. Fortunately I had 2 spare boards and springs (only 1 spare of each now) and the trunk was undamaged. I did a quick marine epoxy mend to the bows on the beach (works on wet materials, even underwater) and was back out on the water 4 hours later. Now I have to remove the patches and do a proper repair, the starboard bow has some delamination to deal with also. :( :? :wink: 8)


thanks for all of the help, and, I would love to see pictures of your repair work.
Those pictures that Dan P. posted really help for me to visualize what I'm going to run into,

BTW, just did a recheck of the 4 posts, and actually, the 2 port side aren't bad. If I tighten the bolts they may be fine.f

Dan L


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:39 pm 
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I know of a 17 Sport that hasn't moved from under its canopy in two years. It starts barking and yanking on its chain to follow every time I drive by with my boat. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:07 am 
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JJ wrote:
I know of a 17 Sport that hasn't moved from under its canopy in two years. It starts barking and yanking on its chain to follow every time I drive by with my boat. :wink:


The poor lil' thing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:30 am 
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JJ wrote:
I know of a 17 Sport that hasn't moved from under its canopy in two years. It starts barking and yanking on its chain to follow every time I drive by with my boat. :wink:



Sounds like you need to have the adoption papers drawn up.

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