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 Post subject: Mast FLoat Help
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:27 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 9:51 am
Posts: 3
Location: Houston, TX
Hello. I have a 94 h20 with a comptip mast. Ive bought a mastfloat part 30112. I didnt realize that the attachement would require drilling the mast, but additionally it does not look like there is a place to drill that would align the tube correctly. The comptip has an aluminum plate at the back half of the upper portion of the mast which would force the eye statps to be mounted too far forward. The center rivet would would be drilled forward of 90deg from the side which would make the float point at an angle. The halyard hook is riveted in six places in this portion of the mast. Looking at the instructions, the diagram seems to be of a differnet mast type. Any ideas on the apparent compatibility issue?

Also, Im not a fan of trying to do this riveting job and dont want to damage the mast. Is the anti-turtling benefit really worth the risk of damaging the mast and the added weight on the mast for stepping? I have not sailed the 20 yet so I dont know how difficult it is to prevent turtling without it. Thanks for any input.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast FLoat Help
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:46 pm 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:47 pm
Posts: 587
Location: San Diego
First the other important questions:

Who do you sail with?
Where do you sail?
How deep is the water?
How cold is the water?
What is the combined crew weight?
Are there other boats (power) or other people willing to help you if capsized?

I have a 20 and a wave. The 20 does not have a float. The boat has been capsized often and once the mast hit the bottom (my crew was "practicing") in Mission Bay. Think shallow bay, flat water, no current, little wind. Each time the boat capsized, the crew quickly exited the boat (climb off the top hull to get the turtling weight off), and then scrambled to the hull and pulled on the striker to bring the mast to the surface. This sequence has happened with relatively experienced crew in various conditions. Adding the float will add weight to the top of the long lever adding to the chance of capsize and making righting more difficult, but it will keep the masthead at the water's surface if you have slow moving crew. I have only turtled a boat many years ago (Prindle 18) in high winds on a deep lake. This turtling was intentional as the boat was drifting faster than the skipper could swim so I climbed up and made it happen. Fortunately the mast was sealed well and we were able to right the boat with ease. By the way, it is amazing how stable a turtled boat is, no drift, and little movement.

The Wave mast has the float and from what I have been told it is because the shorter mast and smaller section is more likely to turtle. Also not that the an average adult can right the wave without a righting line, just pull on the tramp lacing or crossbar, even with the float.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast FLoat Help
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 1:21 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 9:51 am
Posts: 3
Location: Houston, TX
Thanks for responding. To your questions:
Who do you sail with?
Havent sailed the 20 yet, but have sailed my 16 for some time. The first few times out I plan to have at least 2 reasonably strong guys with me, but they're basically ballast and order-followers. It's hard to say for sure as their enthusiasm to do this is much greater at midnight in the bar and not so much on the morning of sailing
Where do you sail?
This boat will initially be sailed on Lake Somerville, TX since it has beach/grassy launch areas and little power boat traffic and is a reasonably large lake (about 4.5 x surface area of Mission Bay for reference). Should be a better learning lake than lake Travis, Austin (heavy traffic, no beach launch, unpredictable weather) where I sail the 16
How deep is the water?
Some parts are deeper than the mast length at 38' max depth, but not all of it
How cold is the water?
not cold in summer
What is the combined crew weight?
at least 380, if not 560 in the begginning
Are there other boats (power) or other people willing to help you if capsized?
probably, but no guarantee

So sounds like if we move quickly, turtling can be prevented in smooth water. Should everyone move to the lower hull, or should one person swim to the mast end to keep it up? I dont know if the mast is well sealed and not sure how to check without separating it from the rigging and tossing it in the lake, which ain't gonna' happen. I guess my fear was that if we turtled this beast, it was a goner, hence the purchase of this expensive, ridiculous looking "moma bob" float. In hindsight, this was probably not the best step-up boat since i am the only "dedicated" crew, but too late--Im making it work.
So do you know about the issue described regarding the mast compatability to the attachment parts? Given my input, do you think I should forget about attaching the float?


I appreciate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast FLoat Help
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:59 am 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Shasta Lake/ Redding, CA
All you need is the 'baby bob' if you want to run a float on the H20. Less weight, less drag, less $. I've got one on mine, and capsized it more than once. It works perfectly. It installs fairley easily as well.

_________________
Wes
98 Miracle 20 + magnum wings


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 Post subject: Re: Mast FLoat Help
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:46 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:55 am
Posts: 5
Hi,

I have been sailing my H-20 for 16 years. When I have capsized, I have always been able to use just the rope righting line to right the boat. It is important to put the boat into the "power righting position" before you attempt to right the boat. Basically that means you have get the mast pointed into the wind with the wind coming across the front of the mast rather than having the wind pushing down on the sail. To get the boat into the "power righting position", simply put your crew weight toward the bow and wait for the boat to swing around to the proper righting position.

Another option instead of a float would be to get a righting pole for the boat if you are worried about getting it up. But before you buy anything else, just take it out in shallow water and practice righting the boat. You will probably need at least close to 300 pounds of crew weight to get it up. I wrap the righting line around my trapeze hook to have enough friction and strength to hold on to the line. Have the crew lean back againt you and it should come up just fine. Grap the dolphin strike when the boat comes upright so it does not continue over and re-capsize. Clear as mud, right!

John McKnight


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 Post subject: Re: Mast FLoat Help
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 9:51 am
Posts: 3
Location: Houston, TX
All,
thanks for the responses and suggestions. Sounds like i mostly need to figure out righting technique.

H18sailaway, just curious, how did you attach the bob to the mast? Is it it comptip mast as well?
Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast FLoat Help
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:29 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:32 pm
Posts: 2
I have been sailing my H20 for 18 yrs. I had a H-16 , two H-18's before the 20. My boats and I have done everything wrong at least once and have made it to the next sail.
If you are sailing in strong conditions and capsize, naturally the mast will fall to leeward. This exposes the bottom of the trampoline to the wind, which in turn pushes the mast down, and thus the "screwed" position. My H20 wants to turtle. I have to move quickly to prevent it by just getting up on the floating hull and letting the boat weather vane around into the wind (be patient to let it come around) then deploying my righting lines.
I never had a float on my mast, but several times wished I had. It can be VERY tireing trying to get a H-20 out of a turtle position even with a crew. Sounds like you are new to sailing a 20, so I strongly suggest a mast float. I thought a good suggestion from one of the responses you received was for the Baby Bob. I've been sailing in warm Mexican waters, but may move my boat to British Columbia where the water is very cold. If I do make the move, I'll install the Baby Bob for safety.
Fortunately the H-20 is very foregiving when it comes to capsizing. The height of the hull from the bottom of the hull to the top of the deck is huge compared to a H-16 or H-18, therefore tremedous volume. You can actually sail the boat on the side of the hull because the side of the hull is so flat. When you have help to upright the boat, test the limits of how high your H-20 will fly.
One other bit of advice that you probably already know--after you capsize and before you try to pull the boat up, make sure you release the main sail by releasing the main traveler line and the main sheet line. Also very important, furrel the jib if you have a furler or just release the jub if you don't have a furler You don't want to haul up the hundreds of pounds of water that the sails 8) are cupping. And you don't want the boat to sail off without yor before you can remount your steed. 8)
Good sailing and don't be afraid to push the envelope SAFELY. The Miracle is a fantastic boat.
Ron


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