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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:08 am 
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Thanks, HH,
I'm assuming each pole on the back of the on/off switch will have separate strands of wire coming off of it. In other words, shall I not "bridge" both poles with the same strand of wire and then run it to the plug? Also, here comes the curve ball, I'm planning on installing a dash mount compass (with lighting) and will be getting a solar charger. Should I pick up a component "panel" from West Marine? I browsed their web site and saw some waterproof panels with 3,4 and 6 toggles as well as ones with built in fuses. I figured if I'm planning on a fish finder down the road, I should plan ahead and do it right from the get-go! I'll also be using the solar charger to charge other gadgets so I'll need to create a detachable set-up if that's doable. I'm in trouble, aren't I? I was scratching my head with the on/off switch! Think how confused I'll be when introducing other components to the equation! Feel free to cut me loose when you get frustrated. I should probably take a class on this stuff anyways.

Thanks for your patience on this,
GR8 Laker
PS. Will one of these be necessary?http://www.windsun.com/ChargeControls/ChargeCont.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:32 pm 
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GR8, yes you probably should have a controller. You do not want to over charge your batteries. I don't know about the one you're looking at here. It seems like over-kill for what you want and it's real pricey. Look around for something not quite as sophisticated, because that's an awful lot of loot to be putting out. You could buy several back up 12 volters for the $. There's got to be something around for your needs at a more reasonable price. When on dry land you want a charger that shuts off to a trickle after fully charging such as the Deltran Battery tender junior. When your battery is fully charged it shuts off and only allows a trickle charge to keep battery full. Same-same with other batteries. If you overcharge you kill. On switch do NOT bridge! You have to think of the switch as a gate, one wire to one side, another to the other side. When the gate is closed it becomes one wire and connects the circuit. Also, if you want to run more electronics, it's not a bad idea to have each device individually fused. Then you only have to run power from the battery to one point, then do connections of any other device to its own specified point on the panel. If it blows, it won't take out everything else. I only have fish finder (Garmin 300c) and bilge pump on my 12v battery. My GPS (Garmin 76cx) runs on AA recharge-ables or store bought if I'm away from a charger. It runs a long time on 2 AA's, so I'm not that worried. I won't be doing the kind of long distance/away from home you're doing, so I'm OK. The solar charger you have in mind looks good, but check around and do some reading of consumer reviews to see if there are any hitches, and compare with other designs and companies. Also find out what components come with the panel and what you have to pay extra for. Again a controller is most definitely a good idea you don't want to kill your battery because you put it on charge then took a nap! And, don't worry, I enjoy giving and taking advice on any of this stuff with the PA's. If you see something I said that sounds strange or wrong, call me on it! I want to help and have fun in the process. Living vicariously through others is fun sometimes! :D
Just wish I could catch BIGGER fish vicariously through others, and still have the same excitement! Haven't figured that one out yet :?
We've gone off track quite a bit from the original "Hatch Leak" topic of this thread.
I guess maybe we should have started a new one called bilge pumps and electronics. Oh well, If the peoples look hard enough they'll find us. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:34 am 
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It is indeed pricey, HH,
I expect that's what one pays when they're buying the newest hi tech gizmos and I do have enough in my trip budget to swing this one. Wouldn't the charge controller regulate/prevent overcharging? The fact that this product can be rolled up and stored is EXTREMELY appealing to me but if it isn't compatible with my needs then there's my answer.
http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=256
There is a "download tech info" as well as a "check out the product manual" spot to click on.
They're holding both the 4.5 watt ($150.00) and 9 watt ($220) versions for me (a significant discount) and also honor a 60 day return policy. Could you take a look at the technical info for me, it's just a bunch of numbers in my mind, and let me know if I can make this system work with my set up. You'll see the reviews from some highly respected names on the site. Again, the 9 watt system will be a big help in recharging my other devices as the 4.5 won't be enough for some of them (according to Moosejaw/Brunton). They did say the 4.5 would work fine for the battery! Still waiting to hear back from Brunton and don't want to rely solely on their word because I'll bet they won't be replacing my battery if things go wrong.
Much appreciated,

GR8 Laker
PS. Was that a yes to the "panel" installation and if the panel has built in fuses, will that negate the need for in-line fuses? Also, the battery/box arrived this morning!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:41 am 
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GR8,
Looks OK to me. Tech info only states about how long things take to charge. I.E cell phone 2-3 hrs., video camera 6-8 Hrs. etc. It says trickle charge for 12v batteries, which is OK. You won't overcharge that way. It should keep your battery charged fully because, unless you have to use it for the pump, it will not be drained much. The controller is only $40 (you don't need or want that expensive one on the link you sent me. It's big and heavy), so overcharging definitely wouldn't be an issue. Brunton may also say, given your battery size, that you don't need the controller at all because 9 watt panel is only trickle charging and can't hurt the battery. Site says Solar-roll comes with a "multi-cord," and a "vehicle adapter." The vehicle adapter is probably a cigarette lighter adapter. The multi-cord however could be anything. Can you try calling them and telling them of your setup? The main concern is, and I don't want to give bad info, if you can clamp multi-cord directly to the battery terminals or if you need an adapter of some sort to connect to an actual battery charger. I'm not really familiar with the solar components as far as how they connect to different pieces of equipment. It says you can recharge a car battery. OK, but with what connectors? Are they extra? I don't think a 9 watt will overcharge your battery, I'm just trying to be safe here. Try and find a phone number and talk to a human at their facility. Find out if there is a certain adapter you need for each piece of equipment you intend to use or, if by going through the controller is the answer, or if one is needed at all. The controller looks like it has just the 2 leads. They can be modified to clamps with no problem. I'm assuming the multi-cord probably has a couple of alligator type clamps to connect to the battery, but what is it really? You might have to have some sort of AC plug type adapter to actually plug a charger into. The household charger I told you about for your battery in the last post is about the size of a cell phone charger. The Solar-Roll info says it will power/charge cell phones, video cameras. etc., so there may be some intermediate adapter necessary. The manual didn't say much about that at all, so I'm really unsure. As far as the power output you'll be fine with the 9 watt model, and $220 is a great price according to what I saw on Brunton's site. Everything I said above comes down to ONE thing. What kind of connectors/adapters are needed for your battery and the other pieces of equipment YOU will be using and do you really need the controller for a 12v/10amp sealed battery? They just don't say much about them.
As far as the"panel" install, no, you won't need in-line fuses if the panel is fused, as each circuit location is fused already.
Battery and box are nice aren't they? :)
P.S.
Oh, one thing you might want to pick up for the battery plug and fuse ends to keep thing from corroding, is some silicone dielectric grease. Put a little on plug and socket of battery and any where else you'll have plug in or temporary connectors. It'll keep moisture from turning everything green and keep good connections in places you can unplug. A small tube from Radio Shack or the like will do.

P.S.S.
I just found a phone number for Brunton. Give them a call direct. They're in NY at: 307-857-4700


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:25 pm 
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Well, HH,
I spoke with Ryan at Brunton and he said there is no need for the charge controller unless I'm pushing 10+ watts. The SolarRoll is equipped with alligator clips so connecting/disconnecting to the battery won't be an issue. The item has been ordered and I'm clutching my credit card as I type! :shock:
As for the panel, do you have any recommendations? Pretend you won the Lotto, which would you choose? I'm sure there are other options outside of West Marine. If something comes to mind, why, please let me know,otherwise I'm headed there on Thursday.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearchView?PopularCat=No&view100page=100&langId=-1&Nao=0&catalogId=10001&viewTaskName=SiteSearchView&beginIndex=0&Ne=2000000&storeId=11151&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&N=377%20710%202010601&sType=SimpleSearch&pageSize=10&omniTag=Category:Distribution%20Panels
Once again, many thanks!
GR8 Laker
PS. Yes indeed, the battery and box are a nifty little package!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:09 pm 
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GR8,
Since I've won the lottery... Wow! Wouldn't that be nice! Anyway, I think I might go with the little white 4 way here:http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=17522&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10109&subdeptNum=10598&classNum=10601. Or the 3 or 4 position one here:http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=17518&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10109&subdeptNum=10598&classNum=10601 How/what do plan on mounting so there will be no leaks? I suppose you could mount on the forward bulkhead in front of the drive-well and below the front hatch, either right or left of center, with a rubber gasket, and lots of Marine Goop under switch housing frame. But, be very careful when cutting the square (?) hole. I'd use Marine Goop there for a more permanent waterproofing there rather than silicone sealer. I think it could be done alright. Or you could figure out a way to mount it via another small box attached to your battery box lid or side. That way you wouldn't have to cut a hole in the boat at all, which I'd think is way more desirable, even if you have to lift the center hatch every time you want to get to a switch. Either way it looks like you're on the right track and it looks like a clean safe setup!
Cheers,
HH


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:58 pm 
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Thanks, HH,
I had my eye on those as well. The panel in the 2nd link is water resistant vs the waterproof panels in the 1st. I believe backs are available for these units to aid in the waterproofing. I'd prefer the "no hole" install for now so the separate box idea is more appealing to me. I could buy another Pelican box and make a foam "seat" similar to your set up that would hold both boxes. The other option is to install separate toggle switches for each device , although, in the other forum links, these seem to be the week point causing many system failures due to "failed waterproofness". Here is the switch I bought: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=34054&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10123&subdeptNum=10980&classNum=10938
There is plenty of room to install 3-4 of these on the vertical ridge under the front edge of the seat where you installed your single switch. I would locate them 2 on each side of the seat. My other option, to avoid getting too far ahead of myself, would be to buy the smallest Pelican box and install my current single on/off switch into that and call it done for the season. I have no other devices (FF, GPS, running lights... etc) to connect to the battery at this point and don't see any being utilized before or during my voyage. I'll have all winter to come up with a more suitable and permanent solution whether it be box or panel. Thoughts?

GR8 Laker
PS. Here's a pretty attractive option for next year! http://gnarlydognews.blogspot.com/2009/11/electric-bilge-pump-switch.html
It's called the Witch Switch water sensor switch, available in Australia at Whitworths.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:09 pm 
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I was thinking maybe the switch and the back part of it could be mounted to your original Pelican battery box piggyback style. No need for any other holes that way. If however, you're only going to use a switch for the pump this season, a single toggle like the one shown at West Marine would be OK till we could figure out something more permanent and reliable. I don't think you'd have to buy a 2nd Pelican if you mounted it as a parasite/piggyback deal and sealed it well with Marine Goop if you can picture it that way??? In other words use the switch panel with a back as a sealed unit, then attach it to your battery box. Everything you need in one unit. How about that? Otherwise, I don't know much about the other kind of switch in the article, and I've never seen one anywhere here in the states. They look pretty big and 3 or 4 might be a little disconcerting as far as drilling all those holes...
HH


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:01 am 
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HH,
I like the piggy back panel idea! That should be a workable temporary solution for this year. I'll pick up a panel and a couple spools of wire this Thursday. With regard to the Whitch switch, the link in the previous post, it is the 4th image down (available only in Australia) and would be designated to the bilge pump only. It is an automatic switch triggered by water. I think the dimensions listed in the spec's are incorrect but are correct in the diagram below that. And, for know nots such as myself, they've included a number of common wiring diagrams. I'm won't be installing the Whitch switch until next year, if at all. There are a number of forum members from down under who may be able to provide some feedback about this particular switch and it's reliability/durability.

Cheers and thanks for the piggyback panel idea!

GR8 Laker
PS. This is the panel that came highly recommended by the folks at West Marine. It has built in fuses but does not have a back cover. I'm sure I can make/find an existing box that will work.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=17433&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10109&subdeptNum=10598&classNum=10601


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:47 am 
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GR8
Looks like a nice setup. I wish they had a diagram of the back of it on their site. Maybe you could take a pic so I could see how it's set up. Anyway, I'll see how my switch holds up. If it doesn't, I'll look into this setup or your "Witch Switch." Let me know how the back panel/rear box set up goes.
Cheers,
HH


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:51 pm 
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Hey, HH,
I tried to find a diagram/photo of the fuse panel by going direct to Blue Sea systems web site. While they had no such info, I did discover that they make a 2 toggle unit that I'll be ordering.
http://bluesea.com/category/62/27/productline/119
The dimensions are such that they can be mounted on the same face where the steering cables feed through the hull behind the seat but on each side of the seat. In other words, aft of the mesh storage pockets on the forward facing verticals. One nice feature with these units is you have to dig a finger in between the protective walls to throw the switch, making it less likely to do so by mistake and draining the battery. I plan on making or finding covers for them as well. I'll be ordering 2 units but will only use one (piggyback/box as discussed earlier) for now. I'll post some photos for you as soon as they arrive which should be near the end of the month because they'll be a "special order" item. I guess I won't be wiring the bilge pump yet but I can glue the pump down and make a foam seat for the battery box.
Until next time... be well,
GR8 Laker


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:00 pm 
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GR8,
That sounds way better and they look good too. I think after the summer I might be looking into a couple of those and doing some rewiring of my own. Thanks for the info. If you do happen to find a schematic, perhaps when you get your switch, scan it and email it or post it for me. I like the idea of the on/off LED's also. It's a really pro-looking setup.
Also when is launch date for trip? I'll be envious!
Cheers,
HH


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:07 pm 
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HH,
I'll be sure to get you the fuse panel info ASAP. As for the voyage, I'm planning on peddling away from the Lake Superior shoreline on the morning of July 20th. It only seems like a month ago when I started planning this trip back in October. Suddenly, I'm finding myself entering crunch time with plenty yet to do. I'll be sure to take many photos/videos and post them soon after I return!

Take care and I'll be in touch soon,
GR8 Laker


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:00 am 
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Great information guys!
Where did you get those red Scuppers from? :?:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:37 pm 
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Hi Bek7200,
I've seen these at numerous suppliers.
-REI
-Cabela's
-Austin kayak
-West Marine

Entering "scupper plugs" or "kayak scupper plugs" into the search function should do it for ya!

GR8 Laker


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