Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:49 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:58 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:34 pm
Posts: 53
Location: San Diego
Does Hobie have a upgrade to a longer rudder for us in the ocean? I'm hoping that this would solve some of the PA tracking issues.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:57 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:59 am
Posts: 531
I bought the larger model that has greater surface area, but not much longer. I attached the smaller orginal rudder with two bolts where the shorter rudder would stick down about six inches lower in the water... Works very well, but you have to remember to lift the rudder much sooner when approaching the shallow water... I also don't force the rudder into the up position. I get out and lift with my hands. Just a thought about getting more bit for the buck... Works for me. try it you will like it. Good luck.

My bad... I did that with the outback not the PA.. sorry for mis-information.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:24 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2416
Location: Escondido
sandydiego wrote:
Does Hobie have a upgrade to a longer rudder for us in the ocean? I'm hoping that this would solve some of the PA tracking issues.
No. If you don't have the newer steering drum, the update would help with rudder sensitivity.

You might experiment with a winglet for more authority, but I'm not sure how much benefit you would get from it at PA speeds. 8)
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:40 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:34 pm
Posts: 53
Location: San Diego
How much of a benefit was the addition of the wing? Did it increase the accuracy of your steering? I cruise in the PA at 2-4 mph at faster speeds it tracks better due to the foward momentum. At slower speeds I get pushed off course by the swell. I may have to try the wing upgrade out.

Thanks

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:42 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:59 am
Posts: 531
I like the wing idea if it helps with the steering at lower speeds. Someone mentioned the upgrade for the steering? Is that an after market item?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:23 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2416
Location: Escondido
The early PAs had a smaller steering drum and the steering was a bit twitchy. Hobie made a running change to a larger drum and has also made this available to the early boats at no charge. See your dealer for details.

Winglets work better at higher speeds. On most kayaks it wouldn't be very effective at speeds lower than 5 MPH, but on the PA, the water passing over the rudder is slightly accelerated, so a wing might still have a noticeable effect at slower speeds. Someone would have to give it a try. I mentioned it since there isn't a larger rudder available, this is a way to effectively increase the area of the rudder a small amount while retaining the original set-up.

The PA has a lot of surface area above the waterline, so wind and swells are going to have a larger effect on course heading, especially at slow speeds where rudders always have less authority.

IMO, rudder placement rather than rudder size is a significant reason for poor tracking. Additionally, the hull has weak directional stability in order to achieve excellent turning. Considering the overall design, it would seem to be an inevitable characteristic of the boat. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:31 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:34 pm
Posts: 53
Location: San Diego
Roadrunner - Thanks. Where did you get the material for the wing and adhesive?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:50 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2239
Location: Maui, Hawaii
Just be aware, the winglet works well for some people, but here in Hawaii I made 2 beautiful winglets back 3+ years ago when we were having problems keeping the AI rudder down. Both ending up cracking the rudder assembly after 5 min. of sailing and sinking to the bottom. The culprit seemed to be the chop causing the rudder to quickly try to pull up and then force down the rudder, which was too much stress for it's assembly. If you do try it, I hope you have a better experience than mine! :o :shock: :(

Oh well :)

_________________
Image
http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:25 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2416
Location: Escondido
reconlon wrote:
If you do try it, I hope you have a better experience than mine!
I don't think that will be much of a problem since you don't have an AI or a Twist and Stow rudder, nor will you be going anywhere near those speeds. I certainly wouldn't have suggested the possibility if I thought otherwise. I have used winglets on the AI, Adventure and Oasis since 2007 with no problems.

Winglet material is Plexiglass (scraps from the local plastic shop). Adhesive is epoxy. I used a fast set to tack it and a longer set for strength. Currently I like Loctite Marine epoxy.

Here's a how-to to get you started.
viewtopic.php?p=30080#30080

The PA may require some special adaptations. For instance, the winglet can't extend beyond the back edge of the rudder. One way to solve that is with a slot in the back of the rudder to allow the winglet to slide forward in order to mount it. Once epoxied, you should have full strength. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:19 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2239
Location: Maui, Hawaii
No arguments with Roadrunner, he's our guru! :)

My winglet rudders were a thing of beauty, and I enjoyed making them. They just didn't work out for the waters and conditions I sail. And it greatly surprised me when they did failed. Then my wife had to rub it in and sail circles around me while I limped back to the launch site. :? (I've done it to her before, but that's just challenging her to stretch her skills 8) )

So, just don't go too far off shore when testing it for the first time. And enjoy!

_________________
Image
http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ocean rudder for PA?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:00 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:34 pm
Posts: 53
Location: San Diego
Thanks guys. I will post on how it works out.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group