Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:57 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:05 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:02 pm
Posts: 1
I also had my Outfitter rudder control handle pop off today while kayaking in the Gulf of Mexico off Florida. I purchased the Hobie Kayak in July 2010 and only had it out 6 times. I had not touched the set screw since it was installed new at the Hobie factory.

This is certainly a design flaw or a manufacturing problem. A couple better designs would be to either have a handle made of stainless steel which would hold the set screw or to have a solid plastic handle which allows for a screw with a locknut to attach through a hole in the rudder control shaft. Also, the steel rudder control shaft could have a geared top to better support the force on the rudder control handle.

I will likely receive a new rudder control handle from Hobie, but I do not have confidence that it will work for very long. Maybe Hobie can send me a spare to carry in my kayak until they resolve this issue.

I have attached a picture of the failed rudder control handle.

Image

Please post to this forum if you have this issue (also check your set screw and see if it is loose and ready to fail).

Ron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:17 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 21
Thanks, Pumbacat! Your pic looks like the same problem that I had with my AI. Obviously, this problem is not really as "wierd" as Matt said in another post. Perhaps Hobie will consider a "fix" for this engineering design?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:43 pm 
Online
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2226
Location: Maui, Hawaii
I think it must be a manufacturing glitch. I had the same problem almost 3 years ago on one AI, but not since on any others.

_________________
Image
http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:01 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:07 pm
Posts: 1047
Location: Ontario, Canada
Someone on these forums mentioned that their dealer has been informed that 2011 boats will have a new Rudder handle (tiller?). I'm assuming from the comments that they are the same as the TI tillers. Maybe the new handle will address this issue? I can only assume that it'll make steering with your toes easier! :)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:07 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:05 pm
Posts: 10
I see that the 2011 rudder control Handle has been redesigned. When can we expect a retrofit for the 2010 models. Also it looks like the standard rudder is quite a bit larger, does Hobie offer a a 2011 rudder kit for the 2010 model. The 2010 rudder is undersized.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:03 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8914
Location: Oceanside, California
The older boats can not mount the 2011 size rudder. The rudder is smaller, but I would not say "undersized".

We had an issue with production on the set screw style handles at some point last year or so. Correctly built, the set screw style is no problem as it was for many years.

You can get the new (standard length) style handle system. I have listed the parts in the forums some time ago. There will be no "retrofit" or discounted program though.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:05 pm
Posts: 10
If you look back in this thread you will see that I fixed your rudder handle issue by securing the handle with a pin through the handle and rudder control.

This did not address the problem that when sailing in 8 to 12 knots of wind the kayak will point into the wind, ignoring the rudder. Reading through the forums I see that there is a Retrofit kit that addresses this issue with bunge cord, new pins and a bit of cord . But I also see that the whole rudder assembly will be replaced with a rudder assembly that pulls straight up. How do I get the first retro fit for my 2 2010 Hobbie AI's...and when will the new rudder assembly be available?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:20 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8914
Location: Oceanside, California
Quote:
How do I get the first retro fit for my 2 2010 Hobie AI's...and when will the new rudder assembly be available?


Retrofit bungee and replacement rudders are related only to 2011 AI and all TI's only. 2010 AIs are not affected by the same issues.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:59 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:05 pm
Posts: 10
Why wouldn't the affect be the same on a 2010 model? The rudder on the 2011 AI is larger, but the rudder stowing mechanism is the same. From what I read the retrofit keeps the rudder down so you don't lose control in wind speeds higher then 8-10 knots. The retro fit also replaces the poor rudder pin design and the pin that has caused frayed control lines.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:16 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
bomad wrote:
Why wouldn't the affect be the same on a 2010 model? The rudder on the 2011 AI is larger, but the rudder stowing mechanism is the same. From what I read the retrofit keeps the rudder down so you don't lose control in wind speeds higher then 8-10 knots. The retro fit also replaces the poor rudder pin design and the pin that has caused frayed control lines.


Strange. For a full two years of usage my 2009 AI suffered no pin breakages, no handle failures, no line breakages, no rudder blade popping up problems and I can't even remember the rudder being overpowered even in high winds. I found the system very good & just hope my new 2011 model gives just as good service. The 2009 and the 2010 share the same steering system as I understand, so your handle failure must surely be re related to quality control in manufacture....We all love our AIs here in Gippsland Australia Matt....Pirate :wink:

_________________
Master of the galleon 'Pirates Lot'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:38 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2388
Location: Escondido
I agree with Pirate. Your problem may be related to a warped housing or rudder or other defect, in which case, you should have it addressed under the warranty.

Although the 2011 rudder is a T & S, it uses a different rudder and different rudder mount -- that is what is where the problem lies that is temporarily being addressed with the bungee system. It is not a permanent fix and in fact overrides the up/down controls. The new rudder assembly that will replace the bungee system does not apply to your rudder and will not adapt to your rudder. So this is not really the right solution for your problems. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:29 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:05 pm
Posts: 10
Correct, the Rudder and the Rudder mount on the 2011 is different... it is larger than 2010 Rudder, that is why I say the the 2010 Rudder is undersized. Both the 2011 and 2010 AI rudders lift at higher speeds because of the T&S design which causes loss of rudder control...thats why they added the bungie cord. I have only had one pin break (after about 15 outings) and I understand why you need a break away pin. However, the Pin in the in the Retrofit kit addresses a issue with the way the control lines route to the T&S assembly....the same way the 2010 model does. The other fix is for hollow tube screw that holds together the T&S that could cause frays in one control line ...again we have the same issue with the 2010 AI models.
I fixed the rudder handle issue on my own and I know at least 4 others who had the same issue from these forums...and all I got from Hobie was that is was 'Weird" or "Uncommon".
I own 2 2010 AI's and these issues are real. When your out in open water it's a real pain to lose your rudder control. There are lot's of complaints about the T&S Rudder systems on the AI and TI not only in this forum but on the web and in Facebook, it seems that 2010 AI owners are getting a raw deal on the fixes. And I am not a Happy Hobie owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:09 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
I can understand your pain Bomad owning two late model AIs and having rudder problems. I personally believe the problem Hobie had with the earlier pins breaking prematurely is due to the movement allowed between transom and rudder box due to too much slack between both. I simply shimmed up the system and never broke a pin though I sailed through some ghastly weather at times. Try that. I would think that if your blade wants to ride up whilst sailing and you can't keep it down by cleating the downhaul then there is an issue with your rudders, or more likely an issue with that batch your two boats were issued with. You could introduce a shock cord like comes with the 2011 AI and TIs but then you don't have the ability to lift the rudder up from the cockpit, and that's a disadvantage. I am not using the bungy strap that came with my new AI's rudder and so far am able to control the blade by cleating alone. But unlike the 2009 model that stayed put without cleating, it is most necessary in the new boat even when using in kayak mode. This is why Hobie are working on a fix for the latest models. I am just confused why my 2009 AI rudder performed so well whilst your two are not. Good luck...Pirate

_________________
Master of the galleon 'Pirates Lot'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:12 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2659
Location: Kailua 96734
Curious, whilst we are on the subject.

Does the 2011 AI rudder exhibit the same turning to weather issues that the TI's does?

Is using the bungee lock down a requirement on the 2011 AI, with its smaller sail?

_________________
"THE WIND IS YOUR FRIEND,.."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:51 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
NOHUHU wrote:
Curious, whilst we are on the subject.

Does the 2011 AI rudder exhibit the same turning to weather issues that the TI's does?

Is using the bungee lock down a requirement on the 2011 AI, with its smaller sail?


I have only been out in reasonable winds Nohuhu but no apparent wanting to round up yet and I cut my bungee off as the metal end clips on the bungee were binding the blade slightly and have not needed it. I am content to cleat it down and wait patiently for the new improved model...Pirate

_________________
Master of the galleon 'Pirates Lot'


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group