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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:10 pm 
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You are correct Matt as 45 degrees will do the job. I'll adjust this weekend prior to sailing and examine the anchor pins.

Thanks for the diagram.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:30 am 
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I still don't understand how to properly orientate the pin. Someone please take two pics, wrong and right?

When looking at the boat from its site should you see the open hole or should you see it when looking at the boat from front or back?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:56 am 
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jmecky wrote:
When looking at the boat from its site should you see the open hole or should you see it when looking at the boat from front or back?
Neither, both of those positions are wrong. Turn it appx 30 degrees so that if you lined up on the hole, and looked thru the hole you would be looking somewhere between the rear of the daggerboard and the rear crossbar. appx where the skipper normally sits.
Maybe that's a good way to describe how to orient the damned thing if you are sitting just forward of the rear crossbar, you should be fairly close to lined up with the hole of the shroud anchor pin.

(Damn, sometimes it is hard to draw word pictures)
I really SHOULD learn how to upload pictures to this forum.

Stephen

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:07 am 
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On Hobie’s the Shrouds have a Twist Toggle which turns the Shroud Adjuster Clevis Pin 90 degrees to the Anchor Pin Clevis Pin Hole. To avoid bending load on the Anchor Pin the axis of Anchor Pin Clevis Pin Hole should be 90 degrees to the load to allow rotation vs. bending. Since the load is caused by the Shrouds attached to the mast the Anchor Pin Clevis Pin Hole should be 90 degrees to the Mast, OR the Shroud Adjuster Clevis Pin (and adjustment holes) should be facing the mast. SO…… Look through the Shroud Adjuster clevis pin holes; if you see the base of the mast you should be good.

Does this sound right??

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Last edited by danneskjold on Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:51 am 
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Quote:
(Damn, sometimes it is hard to draw word pictures)
I really SHOULD learn how to upload pictures to this forum.


mmiller wrote:
More like 45 degrees. You want the pin to work like a hinge towards the shroud tang... in the best setup.

It all depends on the mast rake and relative position of the shroud tang. All of this is "best case". We have the twist toggle in the system to help take the side load off the pin. We just TRY to set up this way to reduce possible side-loading of the anchor pin.

I did a quick illustration that may help.

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:50 am 
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Just a follow up on on my previous post. Thanks for bringing this topic up on this forum. I did replace my anchor pins and am glad I did. One was bent at a few degrees but it was inbetween the very top threads and you could see a miniscule crack. The anchor pins had not been 45 deg like suggested above instead pulling on against the face instead of pivoting.

When you do this it is also a good opportunity to check & tighten the 4 screws per side that hold the anchor pin brackets to the side of the hull as mine got a little loose over the years of use.

I used the (never used) tire iron from my car spare tire kit that has a pry tip that serves as a perfect screwdriver tip for holding those large button head screws(stock on my 1982 H18) while you tighten the nut inside the hull. I have some large screwdrivers but they still don't fit real snug in the screw slots and/or not wide enough.
The "professional" thing to do would be to buy a special extra large screwdriver but this saved some money.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:10 pm 
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I was just cruising the Murray's Marine catalog and much to my surprise I come upon the listing for these shroud anchor pins that are listed as 1/4 inch pins. Right below this listing is another one for Prindle 18s that are listed as longer and 5/16 in diameter. Hmmmm, now why wouldn't this be a reasonable fix for this recurring problem???? Maybe have to mess with them a little...but I don't remember anyone crying the blues about the Prindle shroud anchor pins, and the mast load has to be at least as great. I have read many posts from engineers and others with some serious metallurgical prowess on this forum...I'm just a simple mechanic, but I know that 5/16 bolts of the same composition are considerably stronger than 1/4 inch.. I have had 6 of these pins fail me over my 28 years of H-18 sailing. I know how to orient my pins and tension my shrouds, and I'm not breaking any of my other standing rigging components. Knock on wood, no serious consequences to date. Please advise.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:01 pm 
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I am currently several states away from my boat, so I can't run out and see if I can get a 5/16 nut in the bracket that backs up the shroud pin. If I remember correctly there is some room in there, as I had to jam a screwdriver in beside that nylock nut to keep it from turning while I was tightening and positioning the pin. And I also think there wasn't enough room to get a socket on that nut, so the fit would be close. I can think of several adaptations to get the nut to work, if I need more room ( i.e. different style nuts, locktight, spacers ). The nut isn't the weak link in this situation. I looked at one engineering table that listed break strength of 1/4 inch bolts at 2300/bs and 5/16 at like 3900. I'm sure they vary with alloy and even with thread pitch but that's a HUGE difference in strength


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Hobie shroud anchor pins are 5/16" dia thread. If the Prindle pins are in fact larger, then I agree, it has potential to be a fix, but I suspect it may just be a typo in the catalog.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:11 pm 
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Glad I noticed this thread. I just changed the anchor pins on my 16 simply due to age. I was going to replace the anchor bar too, and had them in hand, but the old ones seemed fine and plus they were longer than the new ones, which I plan to return.

Anyway, not being familiar with the 18s at all can anyone tell me if the 16s are similar enough? I would imagine so but I'm not sure. I didn't even consider the angle of the pin relative the the tang position and line up of the shroud but of course now that I've had a V8 I can see what's very obvious.

One question: How tight should the anchor pin be screwed into the anchor bar? I left it less than tight, wish I hadn't now, but did so because it didn't seem to be the kind of attachment that would unscrew itself what with the other end of the shroud being stationary at the tang. Further, if it does need to be tightened down then how can you get it that way and still line it up correctly as this thread illustrates?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:27 pm 
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Darn,,,checked with Murray's and indeed it is just a typo...both the prindle and hobie shroud anchor pins are 5/16... so I started checking on line for stainless shoulder eye bolts...most of what I've found so far have a relatively large eye at the top. I guess this is to accomodate rope or other line configurations..not the typical 1/4 inch clevis pins we are currently using, a lot of places on the boat.
I'm not sure that I am searching for the right thing....maybe these have another industry name that I am unaware of... Any engineers recognize and use hardware like this that could help me find a 3/8 unit.
I think I can fit a 1/2 inch bar up into the channel piece that backs up this pin that could be drilled and tapped to receive the larger unit.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:48 pm 
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I looked at a used 18 once that literally had the fiberglass deck / hull rail lip where the shroud connects torn away (and badly repaired...wasn't going to last very long).

So I am guessing that with the new pins manufactured of a stronger material, properly installed, the weakest link may no longer be in the pin...could even be in the deck lip itself, or a shroud with a couple weak strands, or a split ring that works itself out, a loose mast tang, etc...


If you do buy / build larger pins, you probably want to make sure that they are either forged or machined...I would not trust a cast piece of harware.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:11 am 
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fastfriend wrote:
Darn,,,checked with Murray's and indeed it is just a typo...both the prindle and hobie shroud anchor pins are 5/16... so I started checking on line for stainless shoulder eye bolts...most of what I've found so far have a relatively large eye at the top. I guess this is to accomodate rope or other line configurations..not the typical 1/4 inch clevis pins we are currently using, a lot of places on the boat.
I'm not sure that I am searching for the right thing....maybe these have another industry name that I am unaware of... Any engineers recognize and use hardware like this that could help me find a 3/8 unit.
I think I can fit a 1/2 inch bar up into the channel piece that backs up this pin that could be drilled and tapped to receive the larger unit.


Don't know if they'll have exactly what you're looking for but have you tried mcmaster?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#rod-ends/


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:17 pm 
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brandon wrote:
fastfriend wrote:
Darn,,,checked with Murray's and indeed it is just a typo...both the prindle and hobie shroud anchor pins are 5/16... so I started checking on line for stainless shoulder eye bolts...most of what I've found so far have a relatively large eye at the top. I guess this is to accomodate rope or other line configurations..not the typical 1/4 inch clevis pins we are currently using, a lot of places on the boat.
I'm not sure that I am searching for the right thing....maybe these have another industry name that I am unaware of... Any engineers recognize and use hardware like this that could help me find a 3/8 unit.
I think I can fit a 1/2 inch bar up into the channel piece that backs up this pin that could be drilled and tapped to receive the larger unit.


Don't know if they'll have exactly what you're looking for but have you tried mcmaster?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#rod-ends/


Interesting stuff. I would be willing to pay considerably more money for beefier pins, even if it meant performing some surgery on the boat to make them work. I know Matt M said the new pins are stronger, but I also know I broke one with my bare hands using nothing more than two sets of vice grips. Long story short my dealer sold me the wrong nut and by the time I realized there was a problem, I couldn't back the nut off of the pin to remove it from my boat. I clipped one vice grip vertically underneath the deck lip on the nut and used the other one topside to reverse the pin. Trust me, it didn't take much force to break it in two, and I'm not even talking about bending the pin during the process. I can post pictures if you want. Thankfully, my dealer made good on it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:57 am 
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Brandon..the Mcmaster link you sent me was very helpful...they have a 3/8 shoulder eye bolt with a 3/8 eye that is closer than anything else I could find myself ...but the unit was made of 303 stainless steel instead of 316 stainless. The latter being far more corrosion resistant. I sail almost exclusively in fresh water so I may still buy one and check it out.
I found some other shoulder eye bolts in 316 stainless, but they have like one inch eyes that aren't really what we would want either.
I'm beginning to think that I may have to go to my friend who has a machine shop, and just get him to make what I want.
That may solve my problem, but it won't help anyone else. In reply to "central michigansailor" who thinks that the deck lip could become the weak link on an 18....I guess any scenario is possible, but I'll bet the damage you mentioned came from either a collision or a storm and not just sailing use.


Last edited by fastfriend on Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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