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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:17 am 
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Yeah, same here - I'm going to add a few extra sets of buckles to our on-board repair kit.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:09 am 
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Update: I forgot to post that the dealer got six (6) replacement buckles and webbing to me from Hobie last week. The new buckles are exactly like the old ones - thinner at the point of failure than the new ones I bought from West Marine - so I plan to just keep these as spare parts that I take out on the water with me.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:10 am 
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Got my buckles from West Marine. I ordered 5 but to my surprise there are 2 per container so I ended up with 10. I will carry them in my every growing repair bag.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:27 pm 
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augaug wrote:
Is there a lesson for the rest of us to learn from this? Any theories as to why they broke? I'm working under the assumption that Hobie has stress tested these to hold more then your wife's weight, so was the issue that she was sitting too close to the buckle and therefore not spreading the weight over more buckles?


I have a theory that a lot of you might consider blasphemy. Hobie is using cheap plastic buckles.

I have been using the same style plastic buckles on one inch tubular nylon straps to hold my kayaks to my trailer for over a year with absolutely no problems. I have hit some pretty good bumps and the buckles held. I don't have tramps but the buckle on my Hobie dry bag broke last week and the only thing I use it for is to keep my wallet dry under the front hatch.

My wife bought the buckles at a sewing/kraft store.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:29 am 
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dosjers wrote:
I have a theory that a lot of you might consider blasphemy. Hobie is using cheap plastic buckles.

Were I to take that at face value, I'd say you're wrong - but I know better now.

I've wondered why Hobie doesn't tout who the vendors of the components are in their literature, as many items on the Tandem are *quality* goods; the sail on mine is made by North Sails, the cam cleats and external blocks are made by Harken, etc. Those are *big* names in sailing circles.

However, I was surprised to discover the internal blocks that are out of eye sight aren't Harken - they're generic no-name cheap plastic blocks that don't even have a maker's mark on them (I'd pay the extra $10 or so per unit for them to be Harken - wait - maybe I already have). The trampoline buckles are made by National Molding, a company I've never heard of until mine failed (Ummm, why not go with Delrin buckles?).

I speculate that Hobie has a balance of pieces and parts from a wide variety of vendors to hit a certain price point or profitability margin. Or that they aren't in complete control of the production line and the components that XYZ (Hobie Brazil or a contract builder?) chooses to use, which would explain a lot of the differences people have noticed here on the forum. Not being on the inside, I don't really know what the real story is, but as long as they stand behind their product I'm happy.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:35 am 
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Mitch,

Don't get me wrong, being a capitalist I understand that Hobie needs to watch costs in order to make a profit but the "good" buckles cost less than a $1 each buying them one at a time how much money can Hobie be saving.

From what I have been reading on the Forum I think part of the problem is that the Hobie owners are too nice. They buy a new boat or a new accessory and it has a problem so they fix it themselves. This saves Hobie megabucks in warranty work. If Hobie had to pay for all the parts & labor for the repairs they might re-think what parts they are using and be a little more careful with their quality control.

Returning defective boats & accessories and having your Hobie dealer make necessary warranty repairs will help all of us in the end.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:28 am 
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dosjers wrote:

From what I have been reading on the Forum I think part of the problem is that the Hobie owners are too nice. They buy a new boat or a new accessory and it has a problem so they fix it themselves. This saves Hobie megabucks in warranty work. If Hobie had to pay for all the parts & labor for the repairs they might re-think what parts they are using and be a little more careful with their quality control.



I question how accurate that statement is. This forum is littered with people who hold Hobie accountable for failed components. If you look at small boat, and kayak manufacturers, you simply will not find other manufacturers that stand behind their products more then Hobie. If Hobie is saving "megabucks" in warranty work, then they seem to be spending it on free upgrades to past users. A quick search of this forum will find all kinds of pieces and parts that have been upgraded for various boats, and then offered at no cost to Hobie owners. They even warranty boats outside of the warranty period by pro-rating the usage, so that if you have a failure outside of the warranty period, you often don't have to pay the full price for a new boat.

I think that the reality is the opposite of what you say, Yes, some owners do decide to fix things on their own, but many owners are holding Hobie accountable. I've owned other kayaks, and there's no way that you'd be able to go back to the manufacturer in the way that we can go back to Hobie. You wouldn't stand a chance. Hobie seems to listen, and then spend the money whether that's on individual boats, or across model lines. I have no doubts that Hobie deals with more warranty claims then any other kayak manufacturer that I've had experience with. Not because the boats are more problematic, but because Hobie goes one step further with their warranty work.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:17 am 
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Like I said in an earlier post what I am saying might be considered blasphemy.

I never said Hobie wasn't a good company nor did I say they didn't stand behind their products. I said that if all the boat owners returned their boats and parts for repair Hobie might look closer at the quality of parts they use.

In comparison, I have purchased other kayaks and never had a problem with them but to be fair they were not as complicated as the AI & TI. But I did purchase a brand new 31 foot Hunter sailboat once and kept it for 3 years. It did not have as many problems in 3 years as my TI came with. There were a number of quality control issues that I feel Hobie should have caught before shipping the boats.

For example, I got knocked down in a very busy channel when by aka popped out and the ama collapsed against the hull of my TI because the little plastic part that was supposed to hold it in place was slightly out of tolerance. Hobie gave all the TI owners new parts to fix the problem but, OH yeah, they all need to have one side sanded down about 1/16th of an inch because the part couldn't be installed because the screws wouldn't line up.

This thread was started because someone who weighed less than 150 pounds broke the plastic buckles on a tramp that was supposed to hold 200 pounds. If that would have happened 2 miles off shore in 3 foot seas and the person got hurt it could have been a dissaster instead of funny story about someone whose wife got her butt wet.


I like my AI & my TI and would recommend Hobie products to others but I do not worship Hobie and I realize that they are not perfect.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:19 am 
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augaug wrote:
I question how accurate that statement is.

It's not accurate for me. With the exception of the trampoline buckles - which Hobie ultimately replaced - I've not fixed any of the problems on my own, the local dealer has done that. My only expense has been gas and time to return the TI to the dealer for the servicing.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:00 am 
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dosjers wrote:
For example, I got knocked down in a very busy channel when by aka popped out and the ama collapsed against the hull of my TI because the little plastic part that was supposed to hold it in place was slightly out of tolerance. Hobie gave all the TI owners new parts to fix the problem but, OH yeah, they all need to have one side sanded down about 1/16th of an inch because the part couldn't be installed because the screws wouldn't line up.

This thread was started because someone who weighed less than 150 pounds broke the plastic buckles on a tramp that was supposed to hold 200 pounds. If that would have happened 2 miles off shore in 3 foot seas and the person got hurt it could have been a dissaster instead of funny story about someone whose wife got her butt wet.


I'm with AugAug for the most part. Hobie is very responsive like no one else. These are pretty much cutting edge designs and it is apparent Hobie engineering is on the ball for safety and durability. The plastic AKA part was an immediate fix and I can tell you that before my Navy career I was a Tool and Die /Machinist and we would get design specs with no access to the final product for application and testing. As such in a rush for safety issues we would get the item out and due to refined specs it would come back after first run production,(which you probably recieved). But safety trumped everything. I would bet those parts are now in third or fourth run and fit well.

As for the Buckles,,,I'm not real happy, but I will give Hobie the time to get it right. In the mean time I will do my own fix as an temp. I couldn't be happier that Hobie actually lets it customers come into the fold as an extensive R&D group, which by way of responding to our collective findings and ideas, is what we are.

Thats a good corporate mindset,,,all of us are smarter than any one of us.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:41 am 
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Mitch,

My apologies to everyone if I misunderstood. It seems like when I read the Forum everyone is either repairing their own TI or asking for help in how to repair it.

Just out of curiosity, are the new trampoline buckles the same as the old ones that failed?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:49 am 
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dosjers wrote:
Mitch,

My apologies to everyone if I misunderstood. It seems like when I read the Forum everyone is either repairing their own TI or asking for help in how to repair it.

Just out of curiosity, are the new trampoline buckles the same as the old ones that failed?


Hi Jerry D.
I'm not sure if everyone is just simply repairing or doing the garage tinkering with their toy. I suspect a lot of us are closet engineering types. As soon as we have something nearly perfect we move on to another toy. Seems that alot of us started out with and earlier version or another model and pretty much perfected pimping it out and went to a new toy to continue. Some guys do cars, some guys do guns, some guys do Hobie Yaks. I know some of my buds pimp thier cars and sell them for next to nothing, some pimp their guns and hang them on the wall to never send another round down range. Now that I have the AI my 09 Revo sits in the yard waiting to be marveled an used by a friend.

Free Buckles!!!!,,, what buckles? Are they Titanium? or Tool steel?
:D

Too much money. Too many rods. Never enough Super models. Never enough fish

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:30 pm 
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sammy925 wrote:

Too much money. Too many rods. Never enough Super models. Never enough fish



Too funny sammy! :lol: I do agree... we are all part of the R&D collective if you will. This of course happens with many products across the board when new models are first released. As stringy and others have stated, similar problems existed with early AI's and Hobie always found a solution. No, they aren't perfect but what company is? Few stand behind their products as well as Hobie and for that I don't mind doing a little R&D on a first round model as I trust Hobie will get everything right in time. Though I admit it IS easy to get caught up in the complaints here on the boards and become frustrated. Just remember you see far more complaints often than rave reviews.... those on the water in complete bliss just don't have as much time to share. 8)

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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Yayks! If I we're in that moment, I am still in nervous right now. Good for her she wasn't hurt. By the way, How's the stramps?. Think to replace it..


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 3:46 pm 
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How sure is the OP that the tension of the 5 or 6 attachment straps were all equal, or very close? I ask because it's difficult for me to get them all the same sometimes. I could see a problem if only one of them was really snug and 150 lbs were applied right on top of it. The pictures arent showing up so its hard to tell what the problem is/was.

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