Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:48 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:30 am
Posts: 85
Location: Sedona/Scottsdale, AZ
Fish_It wrote:
What possible circumstances would provoke you to the point where you'd feel justified to shoot somebody and how likely is it, do you suppose, that you're going to encounter such circumstances in your kayak?

Fish_It, Here's a possible circumstance from the link in the OP: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30551

_________________
Regards,
SedonaAI


'08 Revolution (SOLD!)
'07 Adventure Island
'07 Adventure Island

Psalm 107:23, 24 (KJV)
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters;
These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:57 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:17 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Homosassa, Florida
Guns for kayaking?

What started as a honest question, somehow evolved into the usual gun debate. If you believe guns should be banned or believe in the right to carry it is very unlikely that your views on the subject going to change. You and only you are responsible for you safety and the safety of your loved ones.

After 64 years of life, 2 years in the military, 28 years in law enforcement (26 of which were on the water and in the backcountry), 15 years as firearm instructor, and 10 years with a CW permit I can tell you a few thing I have learned the hard way. Their are some very bad people everywhere: some have no care for anyone's life as they are anti-socials, some are nice individuals but cannot handle liquor or drugs and just turn mean, some have a temper, and some are career criminals. Their numbers are thankfully few and your chance of not encountering them is good. However please understand, they are in the backcountry and on the water. They will kill or hurt you for fun, money, or the fact that you are in their way. These people know nothing but who has the advantage. If they feel they have it you are in trouble.

Carrying a firearm for protection is a double edge sword. If you are not proficient in it's care and use you are a danger to yourself and all that venture near you. If you don't know the law you are likely to end up in a place where you will encounter bad individuals on a daily basis. A personal carry firearm is only to be drawn and used for one purpose, to protect you life or the life of another. If you brandish a firearm to accomplish something other than stated you are wrong and digging a whole that you cannot get out of.

Regardless if you have a firearm or not your actions should be the same when confronted with a hostile situations. If a situation does not feel right to you, leave. Don't pick a fight with anyone. Avoid areas that give you no escape route. Protect your personal space.

If no one had a firearm I would gladly get rid of all of mine. I however don't live in that world. Having said this I have never carried a handgun in my kayak. Yet, if I venture on the around Florida trail I will.

_________________
I'm right 98% of the time. The other 3% I don't worry about.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:39 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:47 pm
Posts: 196
Quote:
Since getting out of the military in 1991, I have carried a concealed weapon legally and have drawn it exactly ZERO times, even when I WAS shot at while in my kayak as I've already described. Your vitriol is indicative of someone who has an extreme phobia and prejudice about guns and their owners, regardless of how many you claim to own.


You've carried for 20 years and never needed it? Doesn't that tell you something?

It's neither vitriol nor a phobia, but you didn't answer the question either.... What would provoke you to shoot someone...not a "possible" scenario...under what circumstances would you take the ultimate step to shoot another person, and, do you think you're likely to encounter them in your kayak? Or you, Ranger...? Do you really find the world such a frightening and dangerous place that you have to always go armed? Bars? Political rallies? Church?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:48 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:17 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Homosassa, Florida
Fish it. You assume to much. I usually never go armed, I may hit a bar twice a year. Never been to a political rally. I don't think the world is frightening or that the places I go most of the time are dangerous. Went to a Church 29 years ago and they married me to my loving wife. I am comfortable with the way I conduct my personal security and believe that you are also comfortable with the way you conduct yourself. Each individual should be aware of their surroundings and make their own decisions.

Be careful with the approaching storm, I rode out quit a few their. Some of the best surfing I ever had was when I lived at Bodie Island an a storm passed offshore. Wouldn't recommend a kayak in the big surf, but, to each his own.

_________________
I'm right 98% of the time. The other 3% I don't worry about.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:45 am 
Offline
Hobie Team Member

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:47 am
Posts: 71
Location: Fort Walton Beach, Florida
Quote:
I would also like to keep this thread from becoming a gun ownership debate in general, as much as possible.


Welp...I was hoping it might be getting cold in hell.....guess not huh...

_________________
Image

Don't lead me to temptation, I already know the way.
Syn


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:41 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:47 pm
Posts: 196
Quote:
Fish it. You assume to much. I usually never go armed, I may hit a bar twice a year. Never been to a political rally. I don't think the world is frightening or that the places I go most of the time are dangerous. Went to a Church 29 years ago and they married me to my loving wife. I am comfortable with the way I conduct my personal security and believe that you are also comfortable with the way you conduct yourself. Each individual should be aware of their surroundings and make their own decisions.

Be careful with the approaching storm, I rode out quit a few their. Some of the best surfing I ever had was when I lived at Bodie Island an a storm passed offshore. Wouldn't recommend a kayak in the big surf, but, to each his own.



I think we can agree on that. I think that you will also agree that there are some - legally permitted to carry concealed - who ought never to be allowed near a gun; they are the scary, insecure ones. And thanks for the concern about the hurricane. I think we'll be OK.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:56 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:59 am
Posts: 16
A gun gives me the say in what happens to me. I don't want the choice of my life in the hands of other people or animals. This is a sign of my insecurity and maybe common sense. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:44 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:47 pm
Posts: 196
SCENARIO:

She: "Oh! Baby! Is that a gun in your pocket or are you really happy to see me?"

He: "It's......

She: ........"It's so big!"

He: ".............................my......"

She: .................................."And HARD!"

He: ....................................................gun."

She: ............................................................"oh"... But you still owe me the five bucks! "

He: "Wait! Don't go! Let me show it to you! When I squeeze it, I get off with such force! It's the ultimate metaphor for an orgasm!"

She: "My pimp is just around the corner!"

He: "Oh, yeah? Bring him on! He can't intimidate me!"

Obit: A young man died last night because he was permitted to carry a concealed weapon, ostensibly for self-defense. A witness reported that as the young man attempted to draw his weapon during a confrontation in an alley, his assailant simply disabled him with a blow to the head with a blunt object. The young man's gun was not found at the scene and is now apparently on the streets where it will almost certainly be used in future crimes of violence.

--------------------
In most states, in personal confrontation situations, one has a duty to retreat i.e., get out of harm's way. Some states have rescinded that duty in favor of stronger use-of-force considerations for self-defense. In the first case, the young man should have walked away. In the second case, while he may have been allowed to use greater force, he's still dead.

Let's take a poll:

Other than in the performance of lawful law-enforcement duties, has anyone ever had to draw or fire their concealed weapon to protect themselves or others from certain mortal danger posed by another person? (Animals I can understand, but then you don't need a concealed weapon for them.)

In your kayak, or otherwise, on the water?

If so, what was the outcome of the incident?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:41 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:59 am
Posts: 16
Other than in the performance of lawful law-enforcement duties, has anyone ever had to draw or fire their concealed weapon to protect themselves or others from certain mortal danger posed by another person? (Animals I can understand, but then you don't need a concealed weapon for them.)




I live in The New Orleans Area. I prevented carjackers from carjacking my ride. I also had looter problems during hurricane kat. A gun if properly used is nothing more than a tool. My mom also defended her self with a gun in a parking lot. I want what happens to me and my family to be in our hands, not some crackhead. I fish at night and boat launches in the inner city seem to attract the wrong kind of people. Me and my family have taken gun safety classes. How can you properly use a tool like a gun with no training. People who shoot themselves are people who don't know what they are doing. It is kind of like drunk drivers using a tool like a car and then killing someone or themselves. I do think that in order to carry a Gun you should have to have a good deal of training, not just fill out paperwork. I am not saying, I am 100% right, :?: I just don't know a better way!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 139
SedonaAI wrote:
I have a very nice stainless steel

Another application may be water fowling, which I have yet to really consider or pursue.

What firearms would you consider sailing with and why?

I would also like to keep this thread from becoming a gun ownership debate in general, as much as possible. 8)


In an attempt to get back on topic, I re-read the original post ...

I carry a Glock 26, with Maritime/Marine spring cups so it works fine after being dumped in the water and retrieved. I use Advantage Tactical Sights. Pistol can be carried with magazine capacity from 10/12/13/15/17/18/19/20 "normal sized" magazine or 33 round extended as a spare in the hull or car for extended trips. (In case it's a whole pack of rabid coyotes, or Nessie the Loch-Ness Monstor )

Second choice, anything Stainless that works, and I often haver one of those as a BUG,

Why I always carry the Glock: the Marine Spring Cups in no-rust Glocks are what I carry the most. The Marine cups from LoneWolf or other supplier is a good $10.00 investment ensuring that the firing pin has all the force needed instead of water fowling it/decelerating it..

Why in general ...

Trying to get 50 yards back to my car once took hours when wild dogs didn't want me to. As pretty as they are, rabid skunks and bobcats aren't high on my favorite pet list. I've read of wild boar attacking a man who defended himself with a flounder gig, and got hundreds of stitches at the hospital.

I have read of murders at US Army Corps of Engineers Parks/Lakes near here (firearms prohibited there) and at boat ramps, and rivers where kayakers "disappeared while camping" I have seen pictures of 3 people bitten by rattlesnakes (all within 50 miles of here) this year, two died. My first round in my Stainless steel BUG is snakeshot. I cart/portage my kayak through some rough "tall grass" brushy country to get to water sometimes, snake country.

-----

For the thread hijackers ... briefly:

I'm pro-life. About the only time I'd use any weapon, hammer/screwdriver/Bic pen/slingshot/fork/chain whatever ... is to protect life.
In Texas, all handguns must be concealed when carried by a licensee, even if you carry because of snakes/animals. I got my license specifically because of deadly snakes proliferating the area.

I didn't find it necessary to get in a gunfight when the two guys robbed the electronics store and one had a gun at my head while the other held a gun on the cashier, then had us lay face down in a store room, they got about $200 and got away safely (luckily they didn't kill us like they did with the several teen girls in the yogurt shop they executed after putting them in the store room) I also didn't find it necessary when the 5 guys with 3 shotguns and 2 pistols robbed the hardware store/lumber yard I was in, and then put all employees in the break room (these were caught when they left, being recognized by police driving by as the same group who put the Grocery Store Employee down the street in critical condition the week earlier) I didn't need to shoot the dogs keeping me from my car ... If I'm in a store/at a campsite and laying face down on the floor with 5 others, and the bad guys are intending to shoot us one by one in the head, I might decide to turn over. I've been blessed so far, but that doesn't mean I'll leave my tools at home.

Poll:
How many of you have actually HAD to use your PFD/life vest/fire extinguisher/door locks?


------------

SedonaAI wrote:
Fish_It wrote:
What possible circumstances would provoke you to the point where you'd feel justified to shoot somebody and how likely is it, do you suppose, that you're going to encounter such circumstances in your kayak?

Fish_It, Here's a possible circumstance from the link in the OP: http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewt ... 11&t=30551


Or http://www.caller.com/news/2010/apr/28/ ... -survival/

but you can Google "river murders" "Park murders" "lake murders" and find all you want.
----------------------------
Anyone else with any contribution to the topic of "What firearms would you consider (when sailing/kayaking) and why? "

?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:03 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:59 am
Posts: 16
870 pump! Cheap,Deadly, and Hunting dove in Mexico with (censored) ammo did not jam it up once! Auto pistols need to be maintained. J.I.C pump 870 will get anything out of your house for the right price. 8) J I C is Mossberg not Remington sorry for the Senior Moment


Last edited by Occupant on Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:16 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 139
870s are good.
I've had an 870 for quite a while, I want the Stainless Marine one.
Many years ago, I used to customize 870s for police officers in Pasadena.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:16 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:59 am
Posts: 16
The Mossberg 500 JIC "just in case" has a neat survival container that comes with it. They call it the Looter Shooter!


Last edited by Occupant on Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:30 am
Posts: 85
Location: Sedona/Scottsdale, AZ
Skipping over the ZERO CONTENT posts, this is turning into a good thread!

RPB, the Glock 26 modified like yours is a superb and very pratical choice!

I'd like to offer my suggestion of the M6 Scout:
Image
More: http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html

For signaling, snakes, birds and self-defense, this seems very capable. A folder that can be stored in vacuum packed "seal-a-meal" bags and kept in the hold for an emergency.

I have an NAA mini that is a great "better than nothing" gun:
Image
More: http://www.naaminis.com/magnum.html

Mine is in .22LR, also avalable in .22WMR. It's best advantage? Doesn't weigh you down when capsized! :lol:

_________________
Regards,
SedonaAI


'08 Revolution (SOLD!)
'07 Adventure Island
'07 Adventure Island

Psalm 107:23, 24 (KJV)
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters;
These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Guns for kayaking?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:30 am
Posts: 85
Location: Sedona/Scottsdale, AZ
Occupant wrote:
The 870 JIC "just in case" has a neat survival container that comes with it. They call it the Looter Shooter!

Occupant, I've never heard of the JIC configuration of the 870? Interesting...

_________________
Regards,
SedonaAI


'08 Revolution (SOLD!)
'07 Adventure Island
'07 Adventure Island

Psalm 107:23, 24 (KJV)
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters;
These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group