Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:24 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:05 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:22 pm
Posts: 12
There have been a few questions asked here about hoisting an AI or TI for storage out of the way.

I tend to use a trailer for transporting my 2 AI's and I keep them with the amas and akas together, cinched with a flat nylon strap with nylon clip fittings.

To do this you need 2 bits of gear -

1. Something strong enough or with enough mechanical advantage for any adult or strong child to raise and lower the AI bundled together weighing in at 52 kilos (115 lbs) - for that weight you will need a block and tackle with a 6 to 1 mechanical advantage (2 blocks with 3 pulleys in each) - I suspect you could use a 12v winch for this but I have never tried , and

2. A lifting harness for lifting the Hobie at 4 points, where they all raise and lower at the same rate.

The only package the come sold with both of those that I have found is the Harken hoister - Harken have always made pretty good gear and my only gripe with it is that is sold through ship chandlers here in Oz and at least double the price of the same unit sold in discount houses in the US - ordering it on the net to a US mail service and having them re-package it for a small fee works out ok.

So here it is set up under an eve outside my garage -

Image

The 4 point lifting harness is closest to you and the block and tackle is furthest away - note that the 4 lifting ropes pass through a 2 pulley rope organiser in the centre and then drop vertically down to the floor. The block and tackle is beyond the rope organiser furthest from you.

So here is the rig set up to receive the AI with akas and amas tied together with lat nylon straps - I have attached some Hobie cradles to boards to ensure the correct load points are observed (170cm or 67" apart according to the manual)-

Image

Ok and here is the AI raised above wheel height - this is convenient to take the wheels or or off, clean it, work on the Hobie etc -

Image

Note their are 2 brown flat nylon straps holding the AI together - one of the really good and useful features of the Harken hoister is the automatic cleat that holds the load in position if you want to stop and do something like remove the wheels at some point of raising at lowering - here is a detail of that automatic cleat at one end of the block and tackle, showing the teeth that grip the tackle rope -

Image

Here is the block and tackle fully drawn in - load fully raised - shortens from about 6 ft to about 18"

Image

And here is the Hobie fully raised - to give you an idea of height the bottom lip of the garage door is about 6ft 3" from the floor and the Hobie is about 9" higher than that again so it is well out of the way - just to be safe I put 2 wide nylon flat straps (red in the picture below) to take the weight off the hoist -

Image

In this series I had a long straight eve to run the block and tackle straight out on - in my other location under a car port it was only 5.5 m (16ft) long so I had to use a pulley to "bend" the lifting tackle around - picture below -

Image

Note that the block and tackle is now diagonally off to the left and the extended lifting ropes go round a pulley at the front of the car port - see -

Image

I had to buy the longer lifting ropes (4mm Spectra braid) to deal with the extra length required to go round the pulley.

Hope this helps anyone that is interested - best, Andrew


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:39 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:55 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks for the post. Iam trying to figure out how and where I am going hang a TI before my wife let's me buy one. I have three choices: 1. On it's side hanging on the wall front to back. 2. On the ceiling obove the opened garage door position. 3. On the ceiling left to right, garage width is 19'. My question is In the final hoisted position, what is your total distance (height) from finished ceiling to the bottom of the wood that the craddles are sitting on. I need to know if this application would fit on my garage ceiling above the garage door in the open position. I have about 18" clearance.

Thanks for your pics and info


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:32 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:22 pm
Posts: 12
hi - never hoisted one but from the spec a TI rigged weighs 190 lbs (86 kg) and is 18' 6" long so you will need an 8 to 1 mechanical advantage in your b&t - Harken do one of those - web site at - http://www.hoister.com/selection.php - model number 7806 is rated to 200 lbs but not sure how much strength that will require at the pulling end, especially if you use the location where you will have to bend the lifting ropes around a pulley (friction is not your friend).

I think lifting on the side of a hobie is a no no for long term storage so I would look at one of your other 2 alternatives - in my second location I only have 3" clearance at either end but the 4 point lifting system is pretty accurate in pulling the hobie vertically with no appreciable lateral movement.

This was my second attempts at this - for the first I just bought 6 ordinary pulleys not in a block - it worked, but not as elegantly or conveniently as the factory assembled b&t and that auto cleat thing is a beauty.

If you get serious about lifting one I would measure everything several times and maybe even try and 8 to 1 rig lifting some sand bags of the same weight to see if you / the wife are comfortable with the lifting pressure.

If your location can allow a trailer underneath it makes loading / unloading at home a quick and easy exercise.

best, Andrew


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:40 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:07 pm
Posts: 1047
Location: Ontario, Canada
arathorn357 wrote:

...I think lifting on the side of a hobie is a no no for long term storage...


I'm not sure if the above statement is correct. I would double check before ruling it out.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:27 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:55 pm
Posts: 7
what is the depth or height of a TI, they never list the depth. I know the length is 18' 6" and the width is 30" for the main Hull but what is the depth/height of the main hull?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:45 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 1977
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Very nice work there Andrew! 8)

myht,
The TI's greatest depth is at the forward crossbar where it measures about 45cm from the bottom of the hull to the top of the cams.
Hobie used to recommend storing on its side but I can't see that mentioned in the updated FAQ's here
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=17730


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:35 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:52 pm
Posts: 120
Location: South Florida (Coral Springs)
You may want to check out a previous post of mine where I installed the Harken 8:1 ceiling hoist for my Tandem Island.

http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=23018&p=100958#p100958

I've been using it successfully for around 5 months now. Although hoisting all parts of the TI is very doable with this hoist, I would not want anything less than the 8:1 mechanical advantage version.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:45 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 309
flaneur,

could you post some more photos. I just can not see the detail. What to you ise to keep the TI up (how do you tie off the rope)?

_________________
Paul, Rebecca & Stephanie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:50 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 89
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Thanks for post

After seeing this I ordered a Harken system from USA to save messing around.

_________________
Sail it like you stole it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:24 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:22 pm
Posts: 12
angusisthedevil wrote:
wrote - After seeing this I ordered a Harken system from USA to save messing around.


Yeah - apart from the cost of them, they a are pretty good unit - best, Andrew


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:30 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:38 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Norwalk, CT
myht wrote:
My question is In the final hoisted position, what is your total distance (height) from finished ceiling to the bottom of the wood that the craddles are sitting on. I need to know if this application would fit on my garage ceiling above the garage door in the open position. I have about 18" clearance.

Thanks for your pics and info



At eighteen inches of clearance you are going to be pretty tight after figuring in your support bars (2x4 or whatever you plan to use) and the bottom portion of the eye screw (or other attachment hardware) used to hold the downlines to the bottom support bars. On both my Oasis and TI I've had to plan for harken hoist installation that allows for the kayak to rest just under the garage door in the open position. I didn't have quite as much clearance however so you MAY be ok...but I know it will be close.

There has been a LOT of discussion here about proper kayak storage and I think this issue is even more critical with the TI given it's weight. I like to be able to drop my kayak quickly onto the trailer and go... without having to flip it over or mess around. This means storing it in the less than desirable 'upside down' fashion (gunwales up). However, I'm not too comfortable with only 2 points of hull contact (much less the 1" straps holding up the Oasis). I'm currently designing a 3 point contact support system that can be slid underneath the TI while on the trailer and then clipped to the Harken hoist so the entire unit can be lifted with little effort. The plan is to use closed cell foam of some sort to custom shape padding for each of the 3 contact points along the hull and amas. During winter I'll simply remove the padding and flip the TI over for long-term storage similar to what flaneur shows above. This should tackle the issue of ease of use versus worry regarding warping. Afterall... no one wants to wake up to a wilted banana hanging from their Harken hoist! :lol:

_________________
2010 Papaya Oasis
2010 Hibiscus TI
A wallet with a hole in it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:16 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:52 pm
Posts: 120
Location: South Florida (Coral Springs)
Here's how I keep the TI tied up. I'm trusting the Harken Hoister isn't going to let it go with it's handy grip. The line hanging down is not attached to anything. I've had my other kayaks held up this way without incident for a year, and this one for 5 months.
Image

Here's a few photos of the clearance above the garage door. You'll notice I have about 21 inches of clearance from the top of the garage door to the ceiling. I cannot hoist the boat with the bow above the door, as it will not quite fit. It's a little thinner through the stern and doesn't have that upper (or downward in this case) slope of the tip of the boat. Also, note that the boards that the boat is sitting on are not above the garage door. They are actually far enough forward in the garage, so the depth of these don't matter.
Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:52 pm
Posts: 120
Location: South Florida (Coral Springs)
ReefWraith wrote:
myht wrote:
My question is In the final hoisted position, what is your total distance (height) from finished ceiling to the bottom of the wood that the craddles are sitting on. I need to know if this application would fit on my garage ceiling above the garage door in the open position. I have about 18" clearance.

Thanks for your pics and info

From my post above you can see that I have about 21 inches of clearance. I still have about 4.75 inches of clearance between the garage door and the boat where the garage door stops. However, go back to the end of the boat and I barely have 3 inches between the rudder and the garage door. So if you only have 18 inches, it may be possible but you're looking at an extremely tight fit, and the possibility of it not quite being enough height. However, I will say that I have another 3.5 inches between the boards that attach to the ceiling and my boat. So if I were to tie my lines a little differently where it attaches to my wood blocks, I could probably get a little more room between the garage door and the boat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:49 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:38 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Norwalk, CT
Very nice explanation flaneur... with great pics showing detail. You are correct, if myht is able to really tighten the straps so the TI hangs very close to the ceiling he may be able to get it to fit between the garage door and the ceiling ... but it will indeed be tight with 18" of clearance. I also store my Oasis this way... with the stern over the door (the bow won't fit due to the slight upward slope you mentioned), however the TI will not likely fit with the bow between the ceiling and garage door (given 18" of clearance).

_________________
2010 Papaya Oasis
2010 Hibiscus TI
A wallet with a hole in it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:08 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:55 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks Flaneur and Reefwraith for your comments, much appreciated.

Your photos have given me a good idea of what the install would look like. It is good to know that the stern is not as deep as the the bow. What is the deepest dimension of the last 6 feet or so of the stern side?

I think I will be able to fit the TI in my garage either above the garage door with the TI lathered in butter or hanging just below the garage door as Reefwraith mentioned.

The bottom line is I so badly want to own a TI, so I have to make it work no matter what, right! Worst case is I just don't park my truck in the garage any more.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group