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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:29 pm 
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Location: Point Lookout, Maryland
To Matt and the rest of the hard working Hobie crew - thank you, thank you - your temp fix for the Mirage Tandem Island WORKS.

Cindy and I finally went out again today, the first time since the beginning of September. We had stopped because the water and air temps had dropped enough to make some medical conditions kick up for her. However, we went to the Annapolis Boat Show last weekend and ordered some dry suits - which arrived last night. No, we didn't let any moss grow under our feet in trying them out... :D

Sailing conditions at Point Lookout were WILD today - easily the roughest we've yet been out in, with 3-5+ foot seas at 3 second intervals and winds gusting up to 30 knots. Conditions were so extreme that we *finally* reefed the sail for the first time (several times actually) and we felt the hull really waver between staying upright and turning turtle on several big waves that broke just as they hit us. At that point we saw the wisdom of continuing our sail in sheltered waters and headed back to the large lagoon near the ramps where we put in.

Here's our Navionics GPS track from today: http://goo.gl/55bf
Cindy is in the process of editing her latest vid as I'm typing this, so I'm hoping to post it by tomorrow morning.

Through all of this the rudder control was NEUTRAL. I didn't have to struggle with turning to starboard like I normally do and the helm responded the same whether Cindy was on the upwind trampoline or not (it's always responded better to her being out on the tramps in the past). We didn't broach at the tops of big waves in windy conditions like we had previously and I retained rudder control at all stages when going over waves at any point of attack. At all times the amount of force needed to control the rudder was a fraction of what used to be required - the steering is superior to what it used to be in our conditions here on the Chesapeake.

Again, many thanks for the effort to pump out a temporary solution to us.

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    2010 Tandem Island
    2010 Revolution
    Chesapeake Bay and Eastern Shore
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:47 am 
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Location: Saint Johns, Florida
Mitch,

I don't understand why you are so happy with Hobie regarding the rudder on your boat.

Yes I agree the temporary fix works and it is easier to use than bolting the rudder in place like I had to do before the fix came out BUT the rudder problem was Hobies fault to start with.

At this time I own a boat that costs close to $5,000 that needs to have its rudder held down by a cloth covered rubber band. It also means that I have to launch the boat and then get very wet snapping the rubber band in place and then going back into the water before I can pull the boat.

Yesterday I was sailing with 5 people in AI's the oldest AI was a 2007 model (even though the boat is 3 years old it is a "new" boat just purchased from a Hobie dealer) and the newest was a 2011 model. Both boats had problems with their rudders, the guy who owns the 2011 didn't know he needed to snap his rubber band in place so I did it for him on the water. The guy with the 2007 model didn't tighten his set screw down so I also took care of that on the water.

It sounds to me that everytime Hobie increased the size of the rudder blade they have had problems with the rudders staying down. They should have expected this problem.

If the steering wheel on your car fell off when you pulled on it and the car manufacturer installed a bungee cord to hold it on would you be happy with the company?

I THINK HOBIE IS A GOOD COMPANY AND MAKE GOOD BOATS but I don't understand why you and a lot of others a praising them so highly for putting a bandaide on a problem that they should have know was going to happen.

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Jerry D.
St. Johns, Florida
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2008 AI


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:37 pm 
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Location: Point Lookout, Maryland
dosjers wrote:
I don't understand why you are so happy with Hobie regarding the rudder on your boat.

And I don't understand why you seem to be so consistently unhappy with Hobie on a wide range of issues - not just the rudder problem of the TI. If the products they sell bring you so much unhappiness, why not just get rid of them and be done with it?

As for my own post - I called it as I saw it. The temporary fix works and leads me to believe that the permanent fix will perform even better when it comes out next year. I think the team working on the TI rudder problem should hear what positive changes their efforts have produced so they better understand what works in different conditions and environments. Hopefully the positive feedback is something they'll be able to take and apply to the permanent fix.

I am always mindful that Hobie doesn't *have* to go to the lengths they are going to fix the issue - they could simply address the problem in a future model and insist that owners with the older flawed models pay for the upgrade or a new boat. No, it wouldn't win them any friends, but that is an option they could take.

We happen to greatly enjoy our TI and the horizons it has opened for Cindy and me, and we are grateful that it was brought to market even if it has some flaws. Hobie is slowly making it even better for all of us on their dime and I happen to feel that level of customer support is to be appreciated and applauded - especially when other customers continue to be so negative.

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    2010 Tandem Island
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:58 pm 
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Location: Saint Johns, Florida
Mitch,

If you'd check the forum you'll find that I wrote in on October 1st that I had installed the upgrade and it worked as good as bolting the rudder down. Which in previous posts said that bolting it done fixed the stearing problems.

I didn't bother going into all the details you did because if I say it works I mean it works in all conditions.

The Hobies I own don't bring me unhappiness but they will bring me more happiness when all the problems with them are solved.

It seems that you and a lot of other people worship Hobie and feel that they can't do anything wrong. I guess I'm just not a religious person.

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Jerry D.
St. Johns, Florida
2010 TI
2008 AI


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:39 pm
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Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Hey Jerry

Chill out!!!

I guess you have never been involved in product development or something innovative like Hobie has.This is a lot more than you get from most companies. I guess you have never made a mistake in your life.......think about it.

Softly Softly Jerry.

Remember Hobie is trying to help you. Whilst I am not 100% happy with the problem (more frustration I guess), it is easily overshadowed by the fact they have done something to keep us going and will fix the problem properly....Don't think you can ask for much more. We are human and we do make mistakes....

Alternatively Jerry........who would you fire first??? My vote is the tea lady! (sorry tea lady someone has to be the patsy)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:10 am 
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Location: Saint Johns, Florida
angusisthedevil wrote:
Hey Jerry

Chill out!!!

I guess you have never been involved in product development or something innovative like Hobie has.This is a lot more than you get from most companies. I guess you have never made a mistake in your life.......think about it.

I have worked in sales for companies that have introduced new products and the customers who bought them expected them to work as advertised and if they didn't they expected them to be repaired or replaced immediately.

Let me set the record straight, I'm not frustrated with Hobie at this time. I get frustrated when I read all the kudos to Hobie because they are attemnpting to fix problems that are their fault.

Maybe you don't know it but I was put in a very dangerous situation when I was knocked down in my TI because the aka blew out and the ama folded in. This happened at an intersection of two busy channels on a Sunday afternoon. The reason it happened is because the parts that were sent to my dealer to replace the ones that didn't meet specs wouldn't fit. If you remember the replacement parts had to be ground down about a 16th of an inch to make them fit. I also had an aka that only had two screws holding the bad part in.

People started posting rudder problems on May 27th. Hobie's solution was to loosen the drum and peddle forward while turning your boat and lowering your rudder at the same time. On August 10th mkrawats suggested using plastic tubing to hold the rudder down. The same day Jim Czarnowski finally stated that there was a rudder problem and they were working to fix it. A month and a half later they announce the mod kits were coming which was an improved version of mkrawats' idea.

When I was sailing with friends on Saturday one guy sailing a 2011 Hobie started having rudder problems. He didn't have his bungee attached to hold his rudder down because he didn't know he needed it. If he was out alone and didn't have someone who could snap it in place on the water he could have gotten himself in trouble. Hobie should make sure new customers know about the rudder problems and what is being done to fix them before a person buys a new boat.

I think it's time to stop saying thanks for the temporary solution and start looking for Hobie to come up with a permanent solution that works.

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Jerry D.
St. Johns, Florida
2010 TI
2008 AI


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:17 pm 
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Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Jerry

The other alternative for you instead of the "cloth covered rubber band" is to put your boat on the trailer, don't use it and then complain......

The temporary solution still allows you to use it!

Did you have your mirage drive in to assist? If so maybe you could have used that to assist you when you had a problem?

Jerry - by your writing you are frustrated and I can understand it...but think of the fun you are having... not getting knocked down of course, thats not cool.

If you don't think it is safe then the smart thing maybe you should not use it.

Seems as maybe whoever made the wrong bits fit did not do it properly or with full knowledge of the real problem. Be interested in seeing what this problem was with your AKA...

Seems maybe your dealer is letting you down not Hobie as I am sure Hobie would not have sent parts out that did not meet the required spec. Sounds odd to me????

PS-Ever actually DESIGNED a new product??? not just sales??? Easy to copy something not so easy to start from scratch...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:08 am 
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Location: Saint Johns, Florida
angusisthedevil wrote:
Seems maybe your dealer is letting you down not Hobie as I am sure Hobie would not have sent parts out that did not meet the required spec. Sounds odd to me????

PS-Ever actually DESIGNED a new product??? not just sales??? Easy to copy something not so easy to start from scratch...


If you go to the thread: "Tandem Island aka lock collar fix kits are a bit too thick" in the section Help With Repairs/Problems you can read about the how the fix for a part that was out of spec was a little too thick to be installed without grinding a 1/16th of an inch off it.

When my dealer tried to install the mod he found a collar that only had 2 screws holding it in and what looked like a broken off screw in one of the other holes. It turned out that the broken off screw was really the tip of the tap used to thread the hole that had broken off.

I agree designing something from scratch is difficult but most of the little issues with my TI were strictly sloppy workmanship. For instance, the line to pull my rudder down wasn't tied properly and pulled out. Luckily this happened at the dealer and he spent hours re-threading and re-tying it. Hobie asked all TI owners to pull the labels off their UP and Down handles and re-tie the knots because several people had the handles pull off rendering their Twist & Stows useless. Hobie sent out new bolts to hold the gudgeons on the back of the boat because of a lack of Lock-Tite on them and also a number of boats tore their rudders off because someone used 1/2 inch screws instead of 3/4 inch screws. The hollow bolt that a rudder line ran through on the Twist and Stow had a sharp spot on it which was causing control lines to be cut.

These along with the missing screws in my aka are not design issues. They are quality control issues.

People pay a premium to buy a Hobie boat and I think Hobie needs to step up and start putting out a better product. That's why I get frustrated when people seem to worship Hobie for correcting a problem that should have been fixed before the boats were ever sold. I may be wrong but I believe that Hobie has had a Twist and Stow problem every time they have increased the size of their rudders. This is not a design from scratch problem.

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Jerry D.
St. Johns, Florida
2010 TI
2008 AI


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:18 pm 
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Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Sounds like you may have got a Monday morning made boat?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:23 am 
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Location: Saint Johns, Florida
angusisthedevil wrote:
Sounds like you may have got a Monday morning made boat?

If that's the case Hobie was only building TI's on Monday mornings when they first came out.

Other TI owners have experienced all the problems that I have had with my boat. Let me clarify that so I don't get dumped on, every problem that I had was reported by at least one other person on the Forum which is why I feel Hobie needs to step up their quality control.

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Jerry D.
St. Johns, Florida
2010 TI
2008 AI


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:39 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Yeah... we get it. We are really trying to get these things sorted.

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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:01 am 
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mmiller wrote:
Yeah... we get it. We are really trying to get these things sorted.

And I really do appreciate it.

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Jerry D.
St. Johns, Florida
2010 TI
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Hey. That vaguely sounded like praise :wink:

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