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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:29 pm 
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Thanks for the explanation, Harry. I wouldn't personally protest you for having that set up. I don't really care much about things like that. What I am curious about is if there is really a better way to do something.

Here's how I solved those problems on the 18 that I sailed and raced for almost 10 years.

Use the black double stretch shock cord, not the white big-box junk. The double stretch shock cord is pretty amazing, and lasts a lot longer.

For using with wings, make a small pigtail out of shock cord about 2' long that clips onto the existing trap shock cord with those little plastic clips.

I would just hate to have all of that hardware and shock cord under my feet all the time.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:55 am 
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The micro blacks I used are attached using small loops of rope that Ronstan use for their Orbit range of blacks.

Feed the loop through the under gunwale fairlead and back through itself, then through the block and over to create a second loop. Photos may not be possible as it is neatly tucked away out of sight.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:48 pm 
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Double stretch shock cord - now we're talkin ! I've never seen 'double' stretch shock cord ? Is there a name for it or a specification ? Like 1:1 stretch or 1:1.5 or something ?

So it looks like the best answer to the problem is better shock cord for the non-winged boats and better shock cord with an extra piece of shock cord clipped on for winged boats.

I guess that's what i was looking for when i asked the question originally - the best way to address the issue of shock cord friction/pull while trapping.

Looks like Jeremy won't give up his secrets without a fight !! :shock:

Thanks all !


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:40 pm 
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Hi,

Ya, you can use the double stretch shock cord ... if you can find it as it is not availible everywhere ... and it's expensive.

But .....

You guys are missing the whole point/problem ..... and not solving the engineering design problem but only continuely throwing new parts/money at it.

The problem is w/ the fiction generated by the fairlead ... and don't forget those rivet protruding under the gunwale that also rub the bungie cord .... making it fail/break.

Now the bungie breaks .... in the middle of a race/sail .... how you going to fix it???? Do you really think that you will be able to re-thread that frayed , broken bungie cord under the gunwale ... through that fairlead with a 90* turn ... Ya RIGHT, you'll be able to do it out on the water .... 9 out of 10 times ...NOT!!!!!!

With my system you can easily re-thread the broken bungie through the Micro block and re-tie it to the trap ..... how do I know ..... because I've had to do it once or twice in twenty years .... as for re-threading through the fairlead ... I had to go to the beach for neadlenose pliers ... or do you carry them on your boat????

And my trap bungie lasts for YEARS ...... three or four times longer then w/o my system ..... at approx $1.00/ft that adds up ... and of course the bungie will not break on the beach .... but in a race out on the water .... not allowing you to sail the boat to it's potential ..... now you've wasted your time/money for a regatta that you didn't finish at your potential because you could not make a repair quickly.

So you want to continue using a poorly engineered, marginal system ... not solve the problem and that is basically un-repairable in an emergency???? Just because it is "class legal"????

Please .... take the time to think the problem completely through ...

(Floyd: You identified the biggest problem correctly .... friction .... how do you solve it??? .... )

(Jeremy: Give the system a try .... you will find that you will not even notice the bungie cord or small blocks "under your feet". All you'll notice that you can trap as far forward as the bow or off the transom ... w/ no fighting the bungie cord. Heck, when I pitch-poled the boat w/ both my niece and I traped out ... she actually went "around the world" still hooked up, that's how much stretch you have .... and the bungie didn't break .... try and do that w/ the "stock" system and you'll be replacing the bungie ..... If you don't like it, take it off ... it's not like you drilled/made extra holes in the boat as you would have if you move the fairleads.)

And I'll repeat ... this one solution/system will work in all conditions w/ or w/o Magnum/SX Wings ....

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:27 pm 
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Quote:
So you want to continue using a poorly engineered, marginal system ... not solve the problem and that is basically un-repairable in an emergency???? Just because it is "class legal"????


Call it what you will, but that's the whole point of ONE-DESIGN racing. The Hobie 18 design is about 35 years old. You could pretty much pick any component or system on the boat and find a way to improve upon it. But the whole point is that everyone is on as equal a boat as possible, following the same rules. We don't get to pick and choose which rules we decide to follow.

sm


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Oh ... Jeremy,

Your idea of adding short sections of bungie w/ clips for the Magnum Wings ... will not work in my case.

I tried when I origonally purchased the Magnum Wings to rig the traps "outside" of the wings,Ok? The Dogbone/Easy Hook kept on falling off my harness's trap hook as I had to reach behind me, pulling the trap around me to "hook-up" then trap out... and half the time the dogbone/easy hook loop would fall off as I pushed out. It just didn't work to well. And the trap lines were rubbing/cutting into/through my Magnum Wing covers .... you know the ones that Hobie doesn't make anymore .....

Now the trap's dogbone/easy hook is right in front of me (as I sit on the wing)like any H18SE .... I reach in ... hook up .... and trap out off the Magnum Wings .... plenty of stretch (as the gentleman from Australia said) and it retracks tight.

So since you are on the "Advisory Board" try it ... and then submit the rule change .... you know all the right paperwork to file .... you can call it "The H18Magnum Wing Trap System" It's purpose .... to allow quick removal of Magnum Wings for "Class Racing" w/o requiring modifying/adjusting the trap system. Thereby helping to promoting more attendence of H18's at Hobie Regattas.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:06 am 
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It could be worse Harry... the 18 could have the H17 trap set up.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:35 am 
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Copy, Harry...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:41 pm 
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I am confused about all the trap bungee postings. I have 1989 SE with SX wings I bought new in "89". I have run my trap wires inside the wings since new. I have raced Magnum class and Stock class for 21 yrs. I can trap out up and down the entire length of the SX wings with ease. Just remove the wings, no trap adjustment needed , and I can trap from the stern to in front of the foward x-bar with ease also. Have I been missing something all these years?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:40 pm 
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Hi Confused,

When the Magnum Wings first came out we were instructed to rig the traps on the outside of the Magnum Wings. But if you went to a "Hobie Points Regatta" you had to remove your "Wings" .... this required the re-tieing/adjusting your trap wire/lines. In fact you had to shorten your trap wires (and move the handles up) in order to work with the wings since they would be slightly long and the dogbone/easy hook would fall off your harness trap hook ... and surprise when you went to trap-out ... splash!!!!!

Now I've always had to fight against the pull of the bungie when trapped out forward or aft of mid-ship .... and the fairleads just wear the bungie out quickly usually breaking in the middle of a race on me when I have it rigged the "stock/factory" way. So I developed a "fix" for the problem ... that IMHO works very well ... extendes the life of the bungie ... and is repairable when out on the water.

As for "tangling your feet" .... I have never had that problem ... not once since I rigged this system up twenty years ago ... as for stepping on the sm blocks, they are located so close to the side stay/shroud I don't usually place my feet there anyway unless I'm wedging my foot against the side stay to prevent from flying forward and I've had no issues underfoot .... so I think that I've used this system long enough to prove what works ... and what doesn't.

And I have a friend who is now blind in one eye from a trap dogbone smacking him in the face when the bungie broke in the middle of the race ... leaving the trap line to flail around wildly ...... now they should have tied the broken trap to the shroud and didn't .... but if the bungie didn't break in the first place?????

Question: The lights go out in my house ... I need to light a candle for light so I can go downstairs using the steps to the fuse/circut breaker box w/o falling down the steps and breaking my neck ...... but I might set the house on fire. Now solve the problem .... whats the greatest risk????

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H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:02 pm 
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I'd use a flashlight.......but seriously, I did Harry's trap bungee mod to my boat a few years ago and love it! Running out of bungee while trapping at the extreme ends of the boat is no longer an issue. At least in my case, with the exception of blocks located on either side of the side stay, all the hardware is under the deck lip.

Tom
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:32 pm 
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Hi Tom,

You know it's funny ... I have lots of spare H18 parts w/ me at the regattas, but I never seem to have spare batteries around when I need them ....

Anyway ... Thanks for posting in w/ your positive comments ... I was beginning to doubt my solution to the problem ....

You know for example on the H16 the origonal jib halyard configuration ran only down the port side of the mast ... some H16 sailors thought that it effected the mast rotation .... so they came up w/ the "Australian Jib Halyard" rig which wasn't class legal at the time .... now it is ..... it's amazing what it means to be "one-design" and how the rules change, or don't change, from class to class .....

Thanks again Tom
Harry

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:14 pm 
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Bump ....

Zubie,

You may wish to read this thread .....

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:06 pm 
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Location: Seattle
Thanks for the bump.

Interesting how many ways there are to tinker with these boats. My son's has a pretty stock SE (I think). What are the critical modfications do you think he (we) should undertake first?

Thanks,

Zubie


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:21 pm 
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Zubie wrote:
What are the critical modfications do you think he (we) should undertake first?


Put a pair of EPO rudders on the boat (either first or second generation), install a 6:1 double sided downhaul system, get Harken main and jib sheet systems if not already there, and put a bungee cord from the front crossbar to the diamond wires to keep the jib sheet from getting hung up. After that, the boat is more or less ready for nationals level racing. Not much else needed on these boats.

sm


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