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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:06 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
Thomas, as Jerry suggests, your boat is leaking somewhere else. It is virtually impossible to take in 3 gallons of water through the 2 Hobie T&S hatches.

You should perform a leak test on your hull and be on the watch for other source of infiltration.


I think there is a missunderstanding. The 3 gallons leak is from a post from Keith. My Adventure have no problems with real big leaks at all. I thought I was clear about that. But since I am a swede, I am not flawless in english.

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thomas


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:37 pm 
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I see the "quotes" now. Sorry. This week, your english is far better than mine. :lol:

My 2007 T&S seals are original and do not leak much, but the latch is often hard to turn until I soak some WD-40 in there and work it a few times. I believe, they are tight by design and have experienced this on new boats as well.

The recessed latch area is a sand and water trap, as you noted. But the fact it is holding water is a good thing. It means the seal is working.

Again, if you keep a small dense sponge on hand, (in the storage net) you'll be able to extract the water and debris from the recess, before opening the hatch. The same sponge does a great job of wiping sand an dirt out of the rubber seal before closing the hatch. The holes in sponge help collect the sand in a way that towels and tshirts do not.
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The Hobie cam lock hatch may not be perfect but it's the preferred design in other Kayaks as well. Some manufacturers use multiple latches on the same hatch. In fact as many as 6!

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Think about how irritating that would be!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:38 pm 
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One thing is for sure... pretty well everything in a boat's design is a compromise of some sort! When we built our 48 footer, we built raised hatches. Water-proof, yes, which was very important as they were over bunks. BUT, they were one more place to trip across if you weren't careful.

Nothing is perfect; just the 'best compromise' given the designer's priorities. :?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:59 pm 
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As I have said before, I like the design of the T&S hatches.
But it's not perfect yet. And I am pretty sure my T&S hatches don't leak. So that it's not the problem for me.

I accept the daily cleaning/lubricating of the hatch seal.

But I am really not happy about the need to dismantle and clean the twist mechanism as often as it have to be done.
I do it under protest.

The "leakage" that occurs every time I open the hatch is so annoying that I will have to do something about it. For me it's not acceptable. Sponge method is not working.

BR
Thomas


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:52 pm 
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Thomas, NOHUHU, et al,

I was the one who said these boats sometimes leak 1-3 gal and I think much of it is coming through the hatches. The "3-gal leak" was a new AI and the owner was doing his first multiday camping trip. We had had a rough day tacking into a 15-20 mph wind. He thought it was his front hatch (my front hatch has never leaked, except for once when the hatch seal had been compromised.) I don't know what his problem was, but he didn't like it and sold his AI shortly after.

We do numerous multiday AI camping trips, and we are pretty loaded down on these trips. Even then, if we are sailing downwind and the bow is diving, I have very little leakage. When we sail on a reach or close to the wind, when we are heavily loaded, we can have a gal leakage or more. I've worked hard to reduce my leakage and it frequently is 2 liters or less. Still, the leakage is coming from the stern area. Sailing close hauled with our heaving loads, I think the stern is under water frequently. I think the leakage is coming in the rear hatch. Just my thoughts.

Hobie must think the horizontal hatches might leak, since on the TI, the rear hatch is tilted. My interpretation of "water on the surface of the T&S hatch" means it is leaking all the time--even if it is a slow leak. Of course, if you are sailing for hrs, fully loaded, that can mean significant leakage.

Keith

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:18 pm 
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Quote:
I have had no problems with the hatches at all and have never done a lick of maintenance to them. I normally launch from a concrete or paved boat ramp from a trailer but have pulled a shore on sandy beaches numerous times.

After a day of sailing the AI might have a couple of ounces of water and the TI a cup or 2. I'd be really concerned with my boats if I was pumping a gallon or 2 of water out of them after I went sailing.


I must say the 2-3gal amount concerns me. I too have never had more than a a couple of small coffee cup amounts,,,,at best,,, after an 8hr day. I do regularly silicone grease the gaskets and shoot the T&S device with lube. The Forward bow compartment hatch does have a foam insert on the lid as per threads concerning the PA hatch and the Revo. You might consider doing the rudder and steering line tubes,, rubber silicone inject as suggested in other posts. Bout the only way I can think of in which that amount of water could intrude.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:09 pm 
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Chekika wrote:
... He thought it was his front hatch (my front hatch has never leaked, except for once when the hatch seal had been compromised.) ...
Keith


I've always assumed that the front hatch leaked a little bit. I don't disagree with the theories mentioned about other hatches leaking, but in a boat with no bulkheads, how can we be sure that the front hatch never leaks?

My traditional kayak had hatches similar to the Hobie front hatch, but had much better gaskets on the top and bottom, they almost never leaked, and if they did, it was almost always the front hatch. Seeing as the design was the same front and rear, the obvious answer on that boat was because the front hatch saw much more water then the rear one, due to large waves crashing over the bow, but not the stern.

I think that water gets into the hull in three areas, the front hatch, the twist and seal hatches, and the small rudder line holes. My boat is still fairly new, but I'm not seeing the "gallons" that others have mentioned. It hasn't ever been an issue for me yet, but "gallons" would be something that I'd want to fix, so this discussion is interesting to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:12 am 
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My front hatch does not leak. I have tested with a piece of dry cloth packed on top of other stuff just below the hatch. Not a single drop of water on the cloth. And (not sailing) the front hatch have then been under water several times. I recommend the same test for T&S hatches.

If the aft hatch is submerged for a longer period maybe it will slowly leak. I have not tested this. If this is the case it had to fixed. It is not acceptable in my opinion.

My Adventure is a 2010 and I have examined the steering lines. They have o-rings inside the tubes so I don't think they leak at all. It can be tested by wrapping a piece of dry cloth around the lines inside at a proper position. If you don't have the o-rings maybe you can order them as a spare part.

If you get water inside the hull I think it's absolutly necessary to determine where it's coming from.

Hard to fix will be rudder up/down lines but maybe unnecessary.

Rudder steering handle can be fixed. Ideas for this is somewere here on the forum. Somekind of brass insert.

thomas


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:00 am 
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Keith, in my case, the original front hatch seals on my used boat were wasted, and water was getting in. I replaced the seals, top and bottom and it is tight as a drum now. I can stuff the bow all day and very little gets in there.

Most of the gallon or less I see after a long run comes in through the rear lines from what I can tell. Trolling/surfing downwind for an hour or more tends to do it.

I don't have O-rings or sealant at the line entry points. When I replace my steering lines, I'll add some, in the hopes of an even drier ride.

Hobie's rubber seals seem to work very well on both the front and round hatches. I imagine some water gets in, (due to bow flexing), even along the outer rim of the rear T&S hatches, where the hole is cut in the hull for the hatch.

Water always wins.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:01 am 
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Without the O-rings in the steering line tubes lots of water will come in this way.
I know because I had an Adventure 2006 before. They don't have the O-rings.

thomas


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:39 am 
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Yesterday, my TI took in a lot of water. I think it was either the front hatch - my seal on the hatch is coming off and/or the rear seat T&S hatch. It was really tight and hard to close. Not sure what happened from the day before. I need to inspect and I guess lubricate the hatch. Also need to glue the seal on the front hatch. I might start another thread about the front hatch seal - I guess I should do a search first...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:52 am 
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I always have a lot of gear in the front hatch. If it leaks, even a little, I can see the water on the gear.

Once I closed a rat in my boat overnight on a camp trip. Rats are terrible, worse than raccoons. In this case the rat chewed through the front hatch tether and a 6" length of the front hatch seal. The seal still does not leak.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:25 am 
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Chekika wrote:
I always have a lot of gear in the front hatch. If it leaks, even a little, I can see the water on the gear.

Once I closed a rat in my boat overnight on a camp trip. Rats are terrible, worse than raccoons. In this case the rat chewed through the front hatch tether and a 6" length of the front hatch seal. The seal still does not leak.

Keith


Then you know for sure that no water is coming in by front hatch.
:lol: Better keeping the rats outside too! :lol:

Maybe you should try the test with some dry cloth under the T&S hatches. But on top of some other gear so you just get the water directly from of possible leaking hatch. The problem is that you get this half cup of water every time you open the hatch. But you can see if you have a major leakage.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:01 am 
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Thomas,

You can't simply put a cloth/newpaper under the rear hatch because when you land all the water collects back there, plus sloshing around back in that tight area would spoil the test.

I have thought about sealing some waterproof bag inside the hatch, but have not figured a way to do it. Perhaps some foldable bucket opened beneath the hatch open might catch water coming in. Although I try to keep the hatch screws tight--that is another potential major source of T&S hatch leakage.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:20 am 
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Chekika wrote:
Thomas,

You can't simply put a cloth/newpaper under the rear hatch because when you land all the water collects back there, plus sloshing around back in that tight area would spoil the test.

I have thought about sealing some waterproof bag inside the hatch, but have not figured a way to do it. Perhaps some foldable bucket opened beneath the hatch open might catch water coming in. Although I try to keep the hatch screws tight--that is another potential major source of T&S hatch leakage.

Keith


No thats right, you must have some gear at the bottom that is fixed and don't moves around. Then on top of that your dry cloth/newspaper. As near to the hatch as possible. (If you have so much water inside the hull that it's sloshing around, you may have a major leak.)

About the waterproof bag inside, I think that's a brilliant idea. I have thought of fixing something like that as a permanent solution. I will try this. It means that if you get in some water it stays in bag (that is closed in the bottom) and you can just lift the bag in the bottom and the water will pour out. Small amounts you can sponge up. If this works I will post photos.

The other source of leak you mention is between the hatchseat and the outside hull, correct? There is a grey sealing there of some sort of foam. Maybe a thin silcon rubber seal is better?


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