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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:41 pm 
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Let's start a topic on how we have made our H18's go fast. I have been racing my 18 now for about a year and have a lot to learn about the boats characteristics so forgive me if I'm pointing out the obvious. I'll start with what I have noticed.

Upwind: Keeping that leeward bow down about half way to 3/4's gives the best performance. Downhaul super tight. Windward hull just out of the water (distribute weight accordingly even if it's putting your crew on the leeward side.)

Downwind: Weight leeward and forward as much as possible. Wind just a few degrees from being on the beam. Center boards all the way up. Touch in on the barber haulers. I would say loosen the outhaul but we always forget to tighten it at the mark.

Questions: Where should mast rotation be at: Heavy wind, moderate, light, Down wind and up wind?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:12 am 
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Add a spin and squaretop :D No H18 can touch me down wind!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:59 am 
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Location: Punta Gorda, FL
I'm interested in this post as I figure out my own 18.

ncmbm, what are you sailing?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:58 am 
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Location: North Carolina
I sail a '82 H18 and a '84 Magnum. The '82 is a custom monster with self-tacking jib, spin and SX mast. This boat is as close to an F18 as a H18 will ever get. I have full custom sails on it from Whirlwind, and I do mean custom. There is no one else sailing the same main shape as mine and I believe I have the only properly fit H18 self tacker out there, with the custom jib. I have played with many of the tricks on the H18 and most will never get the full power out of it. The Bergman book is only the tip of the iceberg of tuning options for the H18. I'm doing things with the mast Phil never considered.

Number one tip for H18 speed is to keep the sterns clean. What I mean is out of the water. On any point of sail the H18 is faster if the sterns do not drag.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:08 am 
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Location: New Port Richey Fl.
I concur. Foward on the boat!!! Keep the sterns up and light, less drag.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
Mtmcccomas,

You confused me ..... barberhaulers????? There are no barberhauler rigged on a H18 ..... a Prindle 16,18, 18-2, 19, 19MX and most NACRA's, Yes, but not on a Hobie.

Mast Rotation .... downwind the "mast rotator arm" should be pointed just ahead or parallel of the front crossbar (over-rotated) .... upwind it should be pointed near the shroud ... but the upwind setting, it does depend on the sail ..... slight adjustments are what seperate the leaders at the North Americans from us "Middle of the Fleet" guys .....

Oh ... if you hear gurgling ... that's your sterns dragging ..... get forward on the boat. My crew spends alot of time hanging onto the bridle wires ....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:13 am 
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Are barber haulers not class legal on a Hobie 18? I race my H18 against Prindle 18-2's and just assumed that I could install a similar barber hauler system on my 18.
Harry Murphey wrote:
Mtmcccomas,

You confused me ..... barberhaulers????? There are no barberhauler rigged on a H18 ..... a Prindle 16,18, 18-2, 19, 19MX and most NACRA's, Yes, but not on a Hobie.

Mast Rotation .... downwind the "mast rotator arm" should be pointed just ahead or parallel of the front crossbar (over-rotated) .... upwind it should be pointed near the shroud ... but the upwind setting, it does depend on the sail ..... slight adjustments are what seperate the leaders at the North Americans from us "Middle of the Fleet" guys .....

Oh ... if you hear gurgling ... that's your sterns dragging ..... get forward on the boat. My crew spends alot of time hanging onto the bridle wires ....


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:08 am 
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Barber haulers for the jib are not class legal on the 18. If you're racing in open class, I don't know whether you're required to follow the class rules, but for one-design racing, they are definitely out.

The 18 actually does well without barber haulers anyway. Downwind in light to moderate wind, the crew should be sitting right at the leeward front crossbar where they can hand trim the jib. In many cases, the crew has to hand hold the jib out beyond the edge of the hull, so barber haulers wouldn't do any good anyway. Once the wind comes up to the point that the crew has to move to windward, you can just trim straight through the jib block and the sail shapes out ok.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:18 am 
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Mtmcccomas,

Nope ... not "class legal" .....

Generally we have our "crew" hold the jib out ... but then alot of the time we want our crew's wieght further forward .... so what to do ???

Pull your leeward daggerboard up and throw your jibsheet over the daggerboard to the outside ...

Notes:
1) you'll need to have your jib traveler set far enough aft so as your jibsheet will clear the trailing edge of the daggerboard ....
2) don't pull the dagger board completely "up" as you do not want the bottom of the dagger board trunk to be creating drag/turbulence w/ nothing filling it so leave the dagger board down by 6-9" from the fully "up" position ....
3) remember when you jybe to "clear" your jibsheet ... the quickest way is to drop the dagger board down and then back up just before you jybe.

Note to SRM: In light air conditions your crew wieght is too far aft at the front cross bar. My crew spends alot of time holding onto the leeward front bridle wire. And I sit facing windward on the leeward side at the front crossbar. This puts the H18 on her leeward bow w/ the windward hull just touching the water.... and her sterns out of the water!!!! As the wind velocity increases I will move across the boat to windward and my crew will move aft.

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H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:40 pm 
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Harry Murphey wrote:
Note to SRM: In light air conditions your crew wieght is too far aft at the front cross bar.


Na, I go plenty fast in light wind. You guys are placing too much emphaisis on getting the sterns out of the water at the expense of sailing with your bows under water. The boat is fastest when its sailed level, about 1/2 way down the bow is all you need. Years ago we would see guys sailing with their bows almost all the way under water with the crew perched on the nose. We did it too for a while, but it simply isn't fast like that. You lose steering input and if there's any wave action, the deck goes under and it's real slow. Maybe its a fraction of a knot faster in straightline speed (that's a big maybe), but when you get hit by a puff, you can't turn the boat effectively to adjust and the gain is lost.

Especially downwind, its way more important to have your crew working the jib 100% of the time not sitting up at the bridle wires with the jib sheet wrapped around the dagger board. Proper airflow on the jib is critical to maximizing downwind speed IMO.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:34 pm 
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This is great! Learning a lot about how to sail fast on the 18. It's good to know that barber haulers are not class legal. I actually had not installed them on my 18 yet but was intending to as they seem to work well on the Prindel 18-2's at the club. After reading your posts I am not going to go with a BH system.

So you guys think that the center boards should be about 6 inches down while going down wind? I can understand how this might streamline the hulls by keeping water from sloshing up the holes but I thought you wanted them to be up all the way so the boat would slide leeward towards the mark.

How much effort does each of you put into tuning the rig? Do you re-adjust for light to heavy wind or do you have a "sweet spot" that you keep it tuned to always?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Hi,

There are two different theories on how to sail a boat down wind ...

1) you sail a fairly steady course and adjust your sails to the wind oscilations by watching your telltales...

or

2) you set your sails and change your course for the wind oscilations by watching you telltales ...

Usually you use a combination of the two methods but one is more dominate then the other .... I do the later, but I didn't say that I don't have the jibsheet in my hand so I can feel the puffs/change my course/adjust the jib slightly while my crew in light conditions sits forward to keep the sterns out of the water ..... and NO, I do not drive the bow so low that it goes under water. You don't want the bow wave to roll up to the gunwale but just short of it by 3-4" (water has "mass" and when that "mass" rolls up under the gunwale and has something to push against, it slows the boat down since the boat's "mass" is moving forward and the water's "mass" is moving aft, relative to the boat).

Also I'm usually sailing with-in 10lbs of min crew wieght/max mast rake .... so downwind you want the mast standing up ... how do you do that on the water??? You stand the boat on it's bows ... and don't forget about "angle of heel" .... every boat has a particular angle of heel that it sails downwind best at ... (learned from Buddy Melges/AC skipper/Scow Champion)

With the daggerboards down just slightly the boat steers better downwind .... it will turn off the wind faster .... reduces the water slopping in the dagger board trunks, and minimizes the drag from the water on the sides of the daggerboards (if they were all the way down/reduces the surface area).

Since I sail close to min wieght and usually in light-moderate wind .... I don't feel it's neccessary to change my rig's tune too often ... just verify that is correct.

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


Last edited by Harry Murphey on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:05 pm 
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mtmccomas wrote:
So you guys think that the center boards should be about 6 inches down while going down wind?


I'd say the general concensus is that there should always be some board sticking out the bottom of the boat. It's a balance, the less board in the water, the more you'll slip sideways, but the more the dagger board well is exposed. We pull them up so there's about 18" between the deck and the rope hole in the dagger board.

Quote:
How much effort does each of you put into tuning the rig? Do you re-adjust for light to heavy wind or do you have a "sweet spot" that you keep it tuned to always?


Personally, I pretty much always rig my boat the same. Once it's balanced, why mess with it? The only thing I tend to change on the beach is the shroud tension. Light air, I'll move it up one hole to make the rig a little looser to help with mast roation. Otherwise, in my experience, mainsheet, jib sheet, traveler, downhaul, and tiller are what decide 98% of your speed. Having a clean boat and fresh sails dosen't hurt either.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:26 pm 
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Also to help w/ tacking/jybing/rig tension don't forget to take a H16 "Mast Wafer" ... make a hole in the middle (to fit on the mast base) ... and install it on the mast base under the mast ball. This will help the mast rotate when under greater rig tension/light air ....

A GREAT trick .....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Location: Punta Gorda, FL
Where do you guys recommend setting the battens when setting up the rig for the day. Last time I was out I put a little more tention on them which changed the sail shape quite a bit. . . but on a side note, I'm not sure when to use what settings. . . .


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