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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:55 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
Rkbarry wrote:
Roadrunner,

Thanks very much. Now THAT is what I wanted to know. Why can't hobie just publish THOSE numbers? It's what one has to pick up and install into the Hullavator that is the issue. I think we all have an approximate idea of what our back's load limit is, too. :D

Rkbarry (guy who needs to come up with a cute handle if I'm going to continue posting)


RE: Two Hullavators

Here's an OutBack SUV + AI Hull + 2xAma's + AI Sail + Outback Sail + wheelies

... I dont think I would have had issue putting a second AI up there instead of the OutBack BUT - I did disassemble my roof system to determine what all I was working with ... Through the magic of the internet and support forums I was even able to make contact with and gain insight from one of GM's design engineers who worked on developing the back of my SUV/Truck.

While Hullavators have been proven to work with AI's, its not an easy job doing it alone - especially if the lift into the cradles is close to 4' as is the case with my vehicle.

Image

Image

Image


Interesting side note - travelling with this setup on top, over 1100 miles, I averaged worse mileage than when I tow my 69 GS (seen in the garage in the first pic) on a open 2 axle car trailer weighing a combined 6,700# !!!

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'07 Hobie Adventure Island #1
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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:00 am 
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jms 2756 - an AI and TI together on a passenger car roof? Man oh man - think it over twice before taking such a risk. I myself have an experience of a number of decades with transporting 2 or even 3 whitewater kajaks on my car roof with a rack of extreme strength. Never had any problems with that. But total weight of let us say 3 kajaks (fiberglass) was about 45 kg, length of boats 4,00 m and width 0,50 m each. Now compare this with the combined weight of AI and TI of at least 80 kg (2 hulls and 4 amas). Also, you would be carrying a lot of volume on your roof which may start to vibrate if the road gets uneven and is extremely vulnerable to gusts from the side. My advice: get yourself a trailer. This would be much safer than any commercial roof rack. Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 3:53 pm
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Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland Australia
It's certainly an effort and with the right racks (extremely heavy duty) it would be OK.

The problem is for the rest of us with normal racks where the 'rating' is around 80 kg and we might think we can do it.

The weight of a fully rigged AI is 52kg, so I assume that a TI would be in the vicinity of 70kg, which gives a combined weight of (taking off shoes.....errrr...ummm...) 120+ kg.

I don't think that any 'normal' Roof Rack system would have a rating that high.

I'm sure a lot of guys/gals would have rack systems far beyond 'normal' though.

The problem is even if a 'normal' system did take them OK for short trips, if they came off you'd be in a world of hurt legally if they hit someone.

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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
The weight limit for roof rack systems is determined usually by the rollover risk to the car, rather than the strength of the roof racks. The recommended limits are necessarily conservative to allow for people who go fanging around corners without regard to the weight on their roof.
If you drive conservatively and carefully, you should be able to exceed the recommended weight by a fair margin, but I don't know what your liability would be if you were unlucky enough to be in an accident.

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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2406
Location: Escondido
IMO, any concerns about roof loads can be easily overcome by using the receiver and T bar. Any car can use one. It reduces your factory rack weight factor by about half and makes the boats so much easier to load. Easily removed when not in use.Image


Of course, I'm fortunate enough to have a Pick Up with a lumber rack. Weight is not an issue (for the rack at least). 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:29 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia
I'm still waiting for my TI (on order), but I plan to roof rack it.

I have a Mitsubishi Pajero (Montero), and I'll be combining my existing Thule roof rack with a Yakima Showboat load assist roller. The roller mechanism at the end extends out allowing for easy loading (and car protection). When not needed or on transit, the rollers can be pushed back in.

I was advised with this set up, the TI can be loaded up the car by a single person.

http://yakima.com/shop/water/lift-assist/showboat

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:30 am 
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Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland Australia
chrisj wrote:
The weight limit for roof rack systems is determined usually by the rollover risk to the car, rather than the strength of the roof racks. The recommended limits are necessarily conservative to allow for people who go fanging around corners without regard to the weight on their roof.
If you drive conservatively and carefully, you should be able to exceed the recommended weight by a fair margin, but I don't know what your liability would be if you were unlucky enough to be in an accident.


I think 'legally' you'd be in for it.

In the event of an unfortunate accident causing injuries the Roof Rack manufacturer would stick to their 'Rating'....rather than accept liability (and why would they) and your Insurer would probably dump you based on the same reasoning.

The consequences could be financially horrific.

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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:39 am 
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Location: Escondido
Hammer wrote:
I'll be combining my existing Thule roof rack with a Yakima Showboat load assist roller.

I was advised with this set up, the TI can be loaded up the car by a single person.
I think you've been ill advised. If you'll check with Yakima, the max load on this bar is 80# at 24" extension. Your 120# TI hull will sink that Showboat in a hurry!

Reconsider using a receiver hitch instead. The lightest duty hitch will handle a 200# load with virtually any installation. I'm pretty sure you can get a roller bar for it as well (although IMO you don't really need one). Remember the full weight of the boat rides on your bar momentarily as it's pivoting to the horizontal position, shown here.
Image
8)


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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:31 pm 
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I'm with Roadrunner. I have the crossbar (goalpost) that is connected to the tow bar I had specially installed for the TI. The goal post gets a bit of a workout; this is what it is designed for.

I am not sure how the 'Yakima Showboat load assist roller' would go. I think that over a short period of time you may find it bends so much that it is unusable

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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:10 pm 
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Location: Escondido
Hammer, if you're still determined to try the Showboat, there are a couple of things you can do to reinforce it. A Pro Angler owner adapted his, as shown in the following link.
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=22283&p=130284#p130284

Keep in mind, the PA is still about 10 to 20 lb. lighter than the TI hull (depending on configuration). If you decide to give it a go, let us know how it turns out (just make sure the "guy who advised you" will give you a refund if you break it!). Regardless, you should use the Hobie TI cradles to support the hull rather than saddles and rollers. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:06 pm
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Location: Toledo, OH
I use a Hullavator to rootop my AI on a Dodge Neon.

Image

There is plenty of room to put a second Hullavator on top to carry a second AI or TI

Image

Hullavator Slideshow

The combined weight would exceed the recommended maximum for the racks (but not for the individual Hullavators). But those limits are not what the racks can carry, they are what the sheet metal on the roof can handle without damage. I've carried some very heavy non-boat loads on mine, I have some dents on the roof, but no structural problems. Since the dents don't bother me, I wouldn't hesitate to carry two boats.

Mileage hint: I only lose about 1mpg in city driving while cartopping (don't have highway figures to compare). The secret is to make sure the boat nose is pointed a bit downward in the front (I cartop it inverted) so that it acts as a spoiler and not a sail.


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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:17 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
:shock: BlueMark, considering a TI upgrade?

I would pay to see that.

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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:01 am 
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Location: Toledo, OH
NOHUHU wrote:
:shock: BlueMark, considering a TI upgrade?

I would pay to see that.


Not getting a TI anytime soon, but it would be interesting to see it on top of the car. The AI is a good foot longer than the Neon, I split the overhang between front and back and don't worry about having to flag it. The extra length of the TI would definitely hang off a distance and would have to be flagged (your laws may vary).

Although double car topping is perfectly possible, if I had two boats I'd probably get a trailer of some sort for them - just about any car can carry a class 1 hitch and that is plenty to handle two AI/TI kayaks.


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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:54 pm 
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My car is a similar size. I use this 'goal post' to help me with getting it up and with the stability. It travels fantastically. You don't even know it is on the roof. Well all except for the dirty big red thing in the sky :lol:

Our longest trip so far with the TI an the roof was when we traveled at 100km/hr for about 3hours. The trip was great; sailing wasn't bad either.

Her is a pic of my TI an the roof.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Car topping AI & TI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 3:53 pm
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Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland Australia
That looks like a good solution to any uplift caused by 'right side up' hull, Paul.

As well as the problem of screwed on racks having a narrower footprint than the permanently attached racks that get about an extra 200mm (8") between bars.

I got the permanently attached Rhino Aero bars put onto my daughters small Mitsubishi Mirage Hatch and they're rock solid making a pretty good rack for holding the AI (I still suffer from paranoia having an Oasis come off my Alfa Thule/Slipstream rig at 100km/h being carried 'right side up' when it took off for the open skies on the Motorway at 10am on a Wednesday).

The Goal post would certainly help to stop any bow lift.

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