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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:21 pm
Posts: 901
Location: Thunder Bay,On
Hey buddy,some times the best decision is just to fold up your cards throw them in and cash in your chips.
Like Sean Connery said in the "Untouchables", "You can't bring a knife to a gun fight".


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:57 am
Posts: 1604
Location: Clear Lake Iowa
I didn't know you were running into any opposition, so its more like bringing a knife to a game of checkers.
Its like 'ol Jack Burton always says: What the hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:21 pm
Posts: 901
Location: Thunder Bay,On
Actually not a lot of opposistion.Just the work to reward ratio is a little high right now.Ice boating is a nice little sailing alternative right now.Racing Ice boats is like a Hobie race on fast forward.Just finished my first ever DN regatta,what a hoot.Check out http://www.iceboating.net/


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 610
Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
Chris,

There is no use in banging your head against a wall ... when you only get silly responses that make no reasonable sense.

Like the H16 Tiller stick issue ... it is excepted in almost all other classes including other Hobie Classes ... but no ... not in here ....

And relalistically if a +1,000,000v lightning bolt (out of the blue) .... were to strike very near to you while you are on your Hobie and holding the tiller ... do you think a non-conductive tiller stick is going to be what saves you???? (actually at that point it's in "the good lords" hands whether you survive or not)

or

if you are raising or lowwering the mast ... who the heck is holding onto the tiller stick????? Thats when the overwelming large majority of accidental electrocutions happen .....

So if I make changes to my boat ... that do not give me a unfair advantage ... who cares???? But if I'm protested .... I'll go home .... and it will be a looooong time before I return .... I've already done that once when my two friends and I was protested by Gail Force for having Magnum Wings on our boats after it was discussed (and Ok'd) at the "skipper's meeting" but not posted on the "Notice Board" .... I do have other options for sailing .....

So call me a "quiter" if you wish .....

PS: I am working on the JO's ....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


Last edited by Harry Murphey on Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:57 am
Posts: 1604
Location: Clear Lake Iowa
That sucks. I just like seeing everyone work towards a common goal, no matter what it may be.


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:55 am
Posts: 356
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
mmadge wrote:
Actually not a lot of opposistion.Just the work to reward ratio is a little high right now.Ice boating is a nice little sailing alternative right now.Racing Ice boats is like a Hobie race on fast forward.Just finished my first ever DN regatta,what a hoot.Check out http://www.iceboating.net/


I'm Envious, I cant wait to get out ice boating again.
We're going to try to get out on the Lockley Skimmers next weekend. Its been cold and not that snowy so far, hopefully there should be good Ice.

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 610
Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
Chris,

I agree w/ you ... but if you make it too difficult on people un-neccessarily on issues that they consider "minor" or of no consequence ... they stop trying .... and then just go awayyyyyyyy ......

And that's what I did from basically 1996 through 2007 ....

Now just for the record let's list the watercraft I have availible to sail/race on:

Cal25
Corsair 43' Trimaran
H18
P19MX
Laser
Chesapeake Log Canoe 20'

Also if I would drive a little further I could crew on a J-35 .... and that doesn't include my fishing buddies ......

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:57 am
Posts: 1604
Location: Clear Lake Iowa
Harry
I am not sure where you're going with all this: I am ENCOURAGING Madge to continue in his quest for a rule change. I am being hard on him for giving up.


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 610
Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
Hi Chris,

I am just trying to make a point about sometimes you can have too many restrictive rules .... and the effect of these rules is to drive competitors away. Most of the time they just silently disappear ....

Now I would like for the current rule about the H18 Trap System to just go away since it doesn't make any sense ... it causes a problem w/ wear/friction while at the same time tries to solve a problem that doesn't exist (IMOH). But I am allowed to drill extra holes in my boat and move the gunwale fairlead elsewere .... and by doing that you create an obstruction when you are trying to get back on the boat after a capsize ... which IMOH is a bigger safety issue then whether you have a small bungie cod underfoot.

Now to change the rule I need to file all sorts of papers ... and then recieve back a bunch of silly ill-thought out reasons why it can't be done .... for a rule that is just not properly thought out in the first place ....

Now my boat has factory: hulls, mast w/comtip, boom, sails, tramp, rudders, daggerboards, furler ... but there are some people who will use any excuse to win a race ... and if they can not beat me on the race course then they'll protest me on some silly issue of equipment/rigging that has no effect on my boat's speed just to get me DSQ'd ....

So I can see Mike showing up w/ a fancy Carbon Tiller Stick and someone protesting him over it ... because it is conductive or has a "universal" rubber connector (and how does that effect boat speed?).... just to move up in the standings.

I had to re-rig my trap system on the beach at the 2007 H18NA's .... because someone said they would protest me .... chickensh-t .....

Here's an idea ... some class rules are not a bases for a protest that results in a DSQ ...... if it doesn't effect the boats overall performance ....

(... and Yes, I'm a hardheaded Scotch-Irish/German ....)

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:57 am
Posts: 1604
Location: Clear Lake Iowa
The trap line thing got killed at IHCA, not here. So the rules we sail by (IHCA) dictate that the line you're using is illegal. Its debatable if its a good rule or not, but we gave it a good shot.
IF the carbon fiber whatever passes at IHCA (assuming a proposal gets sent from HCA=NA) then we're golden. IF not, then no skin. Gotta try to get what you want though.......don't you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 610
Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
Yep ....

.... but does anyone on the IHCA commitee even actually sail/race a H18 (for the trap system) or the H16 (for the tiller stick issue)???

I really believe that the sailors that actually compete on the boats/classes should have the say .... not some group of individuals that don't sail/race/operate in the same conditions that we may have ....

I quess I'm too used to this democracy thing .... and I don't really see us having any say in some of the minor decisions such as how we like to rig our individual boats....

Oh well .....

PS: To whom do I send the bill (at the IHCA) for the replacement of my trap bungie cord when it wears out un-neccessarily much, much sooner then it should????

.... just a joke ... Ha Ha ....

Thanks Chris ...

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 9:59 am
Posts: 280
Location: Mill Creek, WA
Mike,
I'll pick up the action item as my winter project.

Chris,
You have mail.

Ice boating doesn't look like much fun... :lol:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:46 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: Santa Cruz
Not that it really matters, but FYI, and for the sake of moving this somewhere. Here are the current carbon tillers that I sell for A Class. These are built by Ben Hall and are a proprietary blend of Carbon/Kevlar. They are designed so that if you break it, it stays together enough to get you back to the beach without impaling you with splinters. They have a very nice, sort of sand-papery grip. They are light as H@!!! Seriously, they weigh nothing.

They are open on each end to allow fast drainage. When I get them they are blank tubes and I add the fitting. I have never added the stock hinge to this stick, but it wouldnt be difficult at all. I would cut a 5" piece of G10 and glue it in as a compression sleeve and bolt that sucker on there just like the stock ones.

Curiously, the Kevlar sleeve is not conductive, (using my rudimentary test method) but the carbon core is.

Who wants one? $250 ready to plug and play on your 16. I've got 4. It will take a week to modify them from the aclass configuration.

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4623
Location: Detroit, MI
An official survey has been posted: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JYPX96M
Class membership is not required to take the survey, but you are requested to tell us if you are.


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber tillers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:46 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: Santa Cruz
Harry Murphey wrote:
Chris,

I agree w/ you ... but if you make it too difficult on people un-neccessarily on issues that they consider "minor" or of no consequence ...


Since the H16 class is the largest one-design catamaran class in the world, I think it should be a bit more challenging to make rule changes.

I'm all for innovations though...

Madge, Send me an email, it's not quite time to throw in the towel. jeremy@surfcitycatamarans.com

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