Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:35 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:44 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:34 pm
Posts: 2
Hi,

Just acquired an old (pre ’73) H14 that has a sort of turbo conversion, in that it has a jib and jib halyard (but no roller furling or swivel), and has a dolphin striker and trapeze lines.

However it doesn’t seem to have standard rigging; the shrouds are only 15’ 6/8” (4.59m), and as I understand in even the new (post ’83) shrouds are about 15’ 3 ¼” and the older ones even longer than that so I suspect it has too much mast rake as when I rig the shrouds to the top hole of the chainplate adjuster, the forestay still doesn’t reach the adjuster on the bridle, it’s about 8” short. This is despite the fact that that the forestay and bridle are longer than they perhaps should be according to the measurements on the web. Forestay is 14’6” (4.4m) which apparently should be 13’10”, and the bridle is 6’10” (2.1m) and should only be 5’8”.

I suspect that it maybe has rigging from a different dinghy, can anyone please confirm what the actual lengths should be, and also at what height the mast tang should be? I have 2 mast tangs at 4.5m and 4.58m up from the extrusion / base join, I suspect neither are original as there are old rivets between the two.

Currently the shrouds and the forestay are shackled to the higher tang, the lower tang has a block shackled to it for the jib halyard, and the trapeze wire; I guess it makes sense to have the rigging going to the upper one so that the jib can be hoisted under forestay?

What is a good general rake angle that the mast should be (for just general messing about, not racing) I could then adjust the lengths of rigging accordingly (e.g. add extension adjuster plates etc)? I have read that some people put as much rake in as possible, i.e. until the main sheet blocks touch each other, other people have told me that is too much rake, and also that by the time the blocks are touching it should be thru mast bend rather than rake? Can you actually have too much mast rake or should I just use the shorter shrouds, have lots of rake, and extend the forestay to reach? What about the fact that I (presumably) have an old style mast base, how much rake will that allow?

In these pics
Image
Image

I have rigged it to allow about 45deg of turn in a shroud when it is on the (lengthened with rope) forestay, obviously they go tight when the job halyard is pulled tight, which also makes the forestay go a little slack, does this look at all correct? How about the mast rake, look anything near right?

Should there be a swivel on the jib halyard?

Sorry for the long post, but would appreciate your thoughts on how best to get a basic setup as I am much more use to keelboats than dinghies.

Many thanks,

Anthony


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:24 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:32 am
Posts: 257
if your jib has a wire in the luff, that's your forestay.
ideally you'd have a furler too, but not required.

rig the forestay to connect w/the bridle wires.
the foot of your jib is WAY too high.

shrouds... also way too loose.
you want some mast rake, yes...

do a search for hobie 14 tuning guide for detailed info on mast rake and shroud tension for trapping, etc.

P.S. - that's not the right jib for that boat... as you said, it's a "sort of" turbo conversion...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:43 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:59 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Sydney, Australia
The mast tang should be about 4.525m up. This is measured from where the mast protrudes from the step so doesn't include the ball that goes into the socket etc. That was a pretty rough and quick measurement. The double tang looks like a H-16 feature, hopefully it isn't a H-16 mast. The H-14 mast is about 6.82m long (quick measurement)

The rake in your photo doesn't look too extreme. I've had mine that far back but didn't like it as the bows were too high up for me so I went down 3 spots on my adjuster. Rake is a good thing and not just for racing as it helps the bows from diving and stops you from pitch-poling.

When I bought mine last year the standing rigging lengths were all wrong and there was no mast rake and the boat just wanted to dive when going fast.

I suggest you make your own standing rigging, it's very easy to do and will save you money in the long run and you can customize the lengths to your purposes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:10 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:32 am
Posts: 257
well this is a public forum so I can respectfully disagree and debate....

I recommend against making your own rigging because:

1. you can't crimp/swage rigging as strong as a professional machine/process
2. the added expense of professional rigging is a lot cheaper then medical or liability if a mast comes down on someone's head. masts occasionally come down regardless, but every reasonable effort should be made to reduce this... such as professionally made quality rigging

good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:06 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:59 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Sydney, Australia
I'd have to disagree there. I'd understand that with roll swaging but there's not much more you can do with a swage than crimp it. I don't think the fact that a professional crimped it makes any difference, a squashed swage is a squashed swage, there's no magic involved. The only difference might be copper vs SS or the guy does it incorrectly.

I know the local shop here makes the wires up the same way as I do. If you've got a heavy duty swaging tool there's not much more another tool can do to top that. At a given point adding more pressure with a smaller diameter is just going to squeeze the swage out over the edges and thin out the part you are pressing. Plus I double crimp each end.

As for masts coming down it's a good idea to get insurance out for that purpose. Here there are just too many boats in Sydney, the chances of hitting one are high, I saw a big collision just last Sunday.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:27 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:34 pm
Posts: 2
xnomad wrote:
The mast tang should be about 4.525m up. This is measured from where the mast protrudes from the step so doesn't include the ball that goes into the socket etc. That was a pretty rough and quick measurement. The double tang looks like a H-16 feature, hopefully it isn't a H-16 mast. The H-14 mast is about 6.82m long (quick measurement)


Many thanks for taking the time to measure your mast tang, I really appreciate it! Thats about the height of my lower tang (looks like its been moved a little as the original holes got oversized), so at least now I know if I get new shrouds or use plates ot extend the current ones to regular length then I should get about the right rake, and just adjust forestay / jib arrangement to fit.

Thanks! :-)

Anthony


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group