Hobie Cat Forums

I've recently finished a long-distance sea trip in an Adventure along with three paddlers in standard sea kayaks. We spend a couple of weeks pedalling/paddling from Wilson's promontory in Victoria, Australia to the NE corner of Tasmania, which is a commonly done sea kayaking trip in Australia involving long days moving between the numerous islands on this route. We had a couple of > 30 nautical mile > 8 hour days and some mildly rough and challenging conditions so I had a good opportunity to compare the Adventure to standard sea kayaks and to think about how the design could be evolved to make it a more capable sea kayaking craft.

The first observation worth mentioning is that despite being the fastest mirage drive boat, in rougher seas and with winds behind/across the path, the Adventure is slower and requires more energy to propel than normal sea kayaks (a 'Pittarak', 'Mirage 580' and 'Necky Elaho' being the other boats). This is partly because the beam is wider, the bottom flatter and because the mirage drive is like a diesel engine as compared to a gasoline engine if you compare it to paddles. Basically you have more power, but lower speed and less felxibility is pedalling speed; and the power required from your legs is much higher than from arms when paddling. You will get exhausted sooner pedalling an Adventure than paddling a kayak, essentially. I have also paddled normal sea kayaks a lot, so this is a 'within-subject' comparison. The flat bottom makes the boat tip in confused seas instead of the more 'V' shaped kayaks that stay upright and don't drain your energy in attempting to balance them. The wide beam just makes it slower than it has to be.

Another problem is that you can't get any surfing energy from following seas in the Adventure because the mirage drive drags. An area where the Adventure had a clear advantage, however, was with headwinds. Not having to push a paddle forward into the wind is great and I often was hoping for a headwind so that I could keep up with the other paddlers!

This boat isn't sold as a sea kayak, so it is no surprise that sea kayaks are a bit more capable, but it is really close to being comparable. It would be great if there was an 'offshore' version of the Adventure with a more V-shaped hull, a more upturned bow to stop it digging into waves and a narrower beam. The boat has great storage and stability as it is, so slimming it down would be fine. You'd still have plenty of gear storage space and I found the stability fine even on the rough days so you could pare that back a bit. The mirage drive is a great idea and really the only practical available way to propel a kayak with your legs in these sort of conditions. I did have a problem with the split ring holding the fin onto the sprocket breaking and almost losing a fin. Fixed that with a keyring, but could have been annoying out at sea if I'd lost the fin completely. This means of attaching the fins has failed for a friend too, so maybe worth improving?

Anyway, the Adventure is actually pretty impressive as a sea kayak given that it isn't meant to be one. I'd be really interested if the Hobie designers made a more sea-kayak like hull to see how it would perform.

Sounds like a fun trip. Do you have the ST Turbo fins in your quiver? Having the turbo fins is a huge benefit. Are you using the Standard Kayak Paddle? Are you paddling at all? or only pedaling? My favorite upgrades are a real good paddle and the turbos. Other than that, your right there are some tweaks they could make to the hull to make it more efficient and faster.

bobby
http://www.liquidsurfandsail.com/

@snj,

Excellent info and it sounds like you had a great trip - any chance of posting some pics, or perhaps a full-on trip-report? I know quite a few local yakkers who'd be very interested to hear more

I've read about the Wilson's Prom to Tassie trip a few times, but I doubt I'd have the guts to chance it!

What did the other blokes think of the A.I.?

Well done, once again!

Cheers,

Mike.

My deposit is ready. Are you listening Hobie?

I've owned three sea kayaks before I bought my Adventure. I just sold my last one, a Prijon Kodiak, because I never use it. I'd much rather be out in the Hobie! It is a wetter ride, though that's not much of a problem here in Arizona.

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Thanks for the responses. I did have Turbo ST fins and a fairly decent paddle. I have tried paddling and pedaling at the same time, but found the energy expenditure to be so vast as to make it unfeasible for any distance. Also it is very hard to get the boat to track without rudder control and you run out of limbs to allow that.

I'll write up a proper trip report. The other guys had mixed feelings about the Hobie I think, although they were all interested in a 'first' crossing in a new type of craft. The only time the Adventure outperformed speed-wise was in headwinds and we had fairly favorable conditions overall, so I was generally the one struggling to keep up. They all commented that it looked like I was hardly doing anything all day as in normal kayaks the paddle is more visible, even though if you put a heart rate monitor on me I'm sure I'd be doing more work! I was certainly more comfortable at breaks and it was nice to be able to move about a bit and put my feet in the sea.

I used a sail as most people do on these crossings. Thinking that it would be too hard to handle to Hobie sail because of its size, I got a much smaller one. Perhaps with a bit more experience I would be able to use to Hobie one in choppy seas and that would even up the speeds a bit. Even so, I think a slimmer, deeper keeled hull would be very helpful.

@snj,

Looking forward to the report already!

I have no experience of 'proper' sea kayaks, (mainly since my sense of balance is average to say the least!) but they always look very tippy to me...

I know of a few people who're considering the crossing in Hobie A.I.s (I may even be talked into it, once I have my boat and a bit more offshore experience!).

Can you see any problems/issues with the A.I. when it gets lumpy in Bass Straight?

Obviously, with favourable winds, the A.I. would probably leave most sea kayaks eating spray (?), but would the AMAS and mast be a hindrance when the waves started getting up?

Cheers,

Mike.

I moved from a sea kayak to an AI (one boat at a time in my house!) and I wouldn't expect the AI to have trouble in the bigger waves. Common sense is important of course, but there are a lot of occasions where the AI is much safer then a traditional sea kayak in bigger waves.

As far as speed. Under sail, there is no comparison, the AI is a much faster boat, but keep in mind that top speed does not always equal the fastest time between points A and B. When you sea kayak, you choose a direction and go. When you sail, the wind chooses a direction, and you make decisions. If the wind is going the right way, you win every time. If the wind is going the wrong way, you may cover a lot of distance, but not move any quicker towards that point B.

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The A.I. is certainly appealing and I am considering upgrading, but also thinking that a Hobie Wave or a secondhand old 14 cat would be a good option for these sorts of trips if you can fit hatches and use the interior of the hulls as storage space (I don't know if this is possible). Obviously you'd lose ability to move effectively in calm conditions, but for a Bass Strait type trip you could spend the calm days on thoes islands snorkelling or walking and just wait for wind to move between them. A different sort of trip to a kayaking one, but probably really good fun.

I'd imagine the A.I. would be fine with the sort of conditions we had. If you move out of Bass Strait into the smoother sort of swells that you get off the E. coast of Tasmania for example, it would probably perform even better. There tends to be a lot of wind against tide and choppy confused seas in Bass Strait.

With either the Adventure or the A.I. you get a great advantage of not having a flooded boat to deal with if you ever go over. You just need to get the thing upright and get back on board, which is a clear advantage over kayaks if things get really rough. I tied a throw line from my PFD to the boat in rougher seas just to ensure I never got separated from it. I felt safe all the time.

Snj, excellent comparison and great observations on the comparative advantages and disadvantages of the Adventure. It suggests a lot of potential for the Mirage Drive in one of these longer, slimmer and lighter hulls. I'd love to see Hobie do something like that!

Snj,
What RR said!
Thanks for posting those details and congrats on completing your journey. I'm very envious that you have done that trip. It's on my to do list but the logistics are daunting. Not so much about the island hop but getting back with vehicles etc. I suppose I could always just reverse it for the return!
I sail my AI as an Adventure a lot and am confident the small Hobie sail would have been suitable for your trip. I use the daggerboard for stability and roller furl the sail when the wind picks up. I'd choose the AI over the Adventure though for that trip as it is much more capable and comfortable. Hiking out on the Adventure quickly gets tiring and isn't so good for your back!
I too would like to see the Miragedrive fitted to a sleeker hull. A project I have been considering when I get the time is converting a Mirage sea kayak to a SOT and adding a drivewell for the MD.

Longer sleeker hull?

Hey guys go:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29921

And send your requests direct to President Skidmore at Hobie

And please don't forget the closed fishbox/storage lowers your load CG by 4" +

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Not entirely true on the surfing energy. If the waves are right, you can get wonderful surf energy on the Adventure. I wish the nose of the Adventure was narrowed down and upturned. Right now, the straight nose dives into water when in following seas and the blunt nose pushes water instead of slicing through it. For a sea kayak, it would also help to turn up the rear end as well.

A 17-18 foot Hobie kayak with 24inch beam would be wonderful!

I have paddled SINKs for 30 years, have owned rotomolded Chinook, 18ft Eskimo by Easy Rider, 17 ft Cadence by Northwest, 18'11" Extreme by Current Design (LOW initial stability!!). I'm now in an Adventure, and would not go back to the SINKs for fishing. I loved my SINKS, but I'm in love with the Hobies, had a 2007 Revo and just got the Adventure. It does not seem to be a lot faster then the Revo, but does have a longer glide, and seems a little less effort on the pedal is required to troll along at 3-4 mph.
I like the idea of slightly upturned bow and stern, as well as a deeper keel or V-bottom for tracking, and a hard chine to improve both initial and secondary stability. The hard chine of the Cadence made for an incredibly stable boat, especially with a load.