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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:32 pm 
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I just returned from the WaterTribe 2011 Everglades Challenge start in Ft. De Soto Park, St. Petersburg, FL. It was a windy but beautiful day. I’ll post some pictures of that event elsewhere, but here are pictures of the new Hobie AI/TI rudder on display at the launch.

Three of the new Hobie TI rudders.
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Down:
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Up:
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New rudder on an AI:
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Jim Czarnowski, designer and head engineer of the Hobie Tandem.
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The rudder is about 19” (48 cm) long from the housing to the tip, and about 8” (20 cm) width at the widest point (measured with my checkbook, literally--3 checkbooks long, 1.25 checkbooks wide.)

Jim emphasized that this is still a prototype, but, since he was willing to distribute about 7 of these to the competitors in the WaterTribe 2011 Everglades Challenge AI/TI, it must be nearing completion of that stage.

Unlike the original T&S rudder, this looks like a winner.

Keith

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Last edited by Chekika on Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:58 pm 
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Interesting design and certainly much more robust-looking than the twist-n-stow model...

Could be a bit of a pain when transporting/moving the yak around, as it looks like it might stick out a bit...

Hopefully it'll be removable :-)

Mike.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:49 am 
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I would have thought it would go all the way back to the hull when stowed like a sea kayak. But as mentioned, the Hobie shown above are just prototypes, so hopefully it will stowe better than simply vertically up.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:24 am 
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Looks a very simple, uncomplicated design - which hopefully will translate into a simple & effective rudder that does what it's meant to do & doesn't give you any nasty surprises.
If it ends up standing up vertically as pictured, I expect that there will be a further design mod to make it travel onto the top of the hull & possibly stow into a moulded recess slot sometime in future years. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:11 am 
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Well, well, well. It's getting interesting now.

Hilarious CU of the new rudder epoxy-grafted on the grey painted boat (outback?) and the old Twist and Shout rudder laying on the sand,.. ("the spare") Better keep a close eye on that one! :wink:

That's a BIG rudder on that TI. I like it. Nice spy shot of the Gennaker up front too.

Hope all goes well, and we receive a few reports along the way.

Thanks Keith. you salty old dog.

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Last edited by NOHUHU on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:49 am 
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I reckon it looks mean when it's raised - looks like a shark-fin... :-)

I'd be cruising with the rudder up, just to look cool... :lol:

But on a more serious note; I'm hoping they do make it a bit more unobtrusive when it's raised...

Mike.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:57 am 
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I have got to say it does look a bit on the strange side. I would hate to have to stow this on the car at 100km for long trips

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:36 am 
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I recently wrote (http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=34077)
Quote:
I've complained about the rudder design & made suggestions on page 6 (3 posts) of the thread: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=25549&p=116865&hilit=twist+rudder#p116865

The Hobie AI is a tough boat w/ a serious weak link: the rudder. It is a shame for such a versatile, capable boat to be handicapped with an over-designed and under-engineered rudder.


Also,
Quote:
Chekika wrote:
...I have always been unimpressed with the complexity of the AI rudder system.

RoadRunner followed with:
I tend to agree with Keith, thinking the Twist N Stow was bigger on the "wow" factor than a functional improvement, at least on the water. Additionally, it appears the system has always been a challenge for Hobie. When the larger sailing rudder came out, the system seemed to be overworked and changes were made internally as well as special methods to hoist the heavier rudder.


Hobie/Jim Czarnowski have made a sea change in thinking. I congratulate them.

I don't find the new rudder "strange." It is the original Twist-n-Stow rudder on these boats that is strange. The new one does have have the look of a shark fin--interesting.

The new, robust rudder is stowed either vertically or down as shown in my pictures above. Personally, I like the vertical/down storage--gets the rudder out of the way and keeps things simple!

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:22 am 
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NOHUHU--that grey stern with new rudder is NOT an old outback. It is the original prototype, fiberglass Hobie Tandem (ca 2 yrs ago) used by Jim & wife, OceanDiva. It is all chopped & cut up, but still working. It is in this year's Everglades Challenge and is piloted by Tyro (aka Joseph Mullen) and Paddlecarver (aka Ed Engel).

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Last edited by Chekika on Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:36 am 
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Maybe with the final version, we could 'pin' the rudder for transport, up or down or for travel even strait back.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:29 am 
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Hammer,

To lay flush against the hull, would not the blade need to be offset, or the pivoting rudder housing be placed above the hull, an inherently weaker design? Fine for the small paddle craft in the pictures maybe.

The transom-flush mount looks as simple and strong as you can get.

Hobies "new" rudder actually looks more like the traditional style found on the getaway and cats. Owners of those boats may be able to provide insights.

If it works, that's fine with me. Car topping/flipping is going to get trickier though.

Too early to tell, but 2 steps forward, 1 step back still counts as progress.

Godspeed PenguinMan!

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Last edited by NOHUHU on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:17 pm 
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Keith,
Thanks for those pics. Once again the EC has given us some great info on what is coming. 8)

I too am a bit surprised at how high the rudder sits when stowed. :shock: Seeing it I was reminded of the original pull up rudder that came on our old Tandem (pre Oasis). The shape at the top and the split ring look very familiar. Everything old is new again. :wink:
The great advantage of the twist-n-stow was in transporting and how the rudder tucked in safely out of the way. I suspect the design had a lot to do with shipping convenience. Hobie will have to have a major re-think on how they transport their kayaks with this rudder. It may mean that the rudder is assembled by the dealer after delivery?
I look forward to the finished product! :)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:35 pm 
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Maybe if that bolt that the rudder pivots on (up & down) were replaced with some sort of quick release keeper pin, then the rudder blade could be removed for transport? :?

I am sure Hobie have it figured out, just waiting for it to be released. Will I be able to retrofit one to my 2009 AI also?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Hey guys! The lower truncheon bolt on the dune TI looks loose. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:14 pm 
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I (and I believe many others) have been perfectly happy with the twist and stow rudder on my 2009 AI. The new rudder looks like it's going to be unwieldy when transporting and storing the boat. I also like being able to roll the hull over after a sail to drain the mast well and that won't be possible any more.

While something clearly had to be done about the TI's rudder problems, I wonder if it was a good idea to put the new design on the AI as well. It seems like a bit of a backward step.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

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