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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:34 pm 
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Location: Victoria, Australia
It might float, but how the heck do you right it if it goes over?

For me personally, sorry but I think it is way over the top, it's lost the beauty of the AI and it's ease of use.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:32 am 
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Location: Kailua 96734
The proof is in the sailing. (Report to follow - promise).

(The compass is a handheld Ritchie.)

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Last edited by NOHUHU on Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:02 am 
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NOHUHU wrote:
The proof is in the sailing.


In what way?
Does it reduce diving, both bow and amas?
Does it reduce the sail overpowering the rudder in some way?
Would like a bit of a breakdown re what and how it boosts performance if you do not mind Nohuhu.

I have no doubt there would be some benefits from the larger amas in regard to flotation, helping keep the bow up, also sail pressure in a reaching wind though I still believe it would not be enough to translate change, re the sail overpowering the rudder in heavier wind, would still have to de-power/reef the sail. I don't know a lot about sailing, so happy to learn from your findings.

My greatest concern is all the other fitted paraphernalia, and unsure just what it is that the second bar at the mast stay/cross bar does and how it is fixed exactly? From what i can see in the photo's, it's not possible to fold the amas in with the larger one's fitted, is that correct?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:23 pm 
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Location: Saint Johns, Florida
Nohuhu,

Besides wanting to have a very unique boat was there any other reason you didn't start with a TI and add the benches and other equipment?

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2010 TI
2008 AI


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:49 pm 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
My opinion, an AI with the TI ama is about 1/2 way between an AI & TI in weight, ride and carrying capacity.

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:36 am 
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Really agree with you KBob - "Hapa" describes it well, and early indications are that this genetic experiment is paying off.
dosjers wrote:
Nohuhu,
Besides wanting to have a very unique boat was there any other reason you didn't start with a TI and add the benches and other equipment?
Hi Jerry,

As you know, the TI already has extra seating and more float, etc so this project originally grew out the desire to make the AI a safer, more comfortable boat with more sailing, fishing and diving possibilities. "Uniqueness" has no value outside the 3 mile nautical line surrounding the islands. Out in deep water, only functionality and dependability matter.

I just want everyone to understand that, in Batman's mind, there is absolutely no desire to "Hotrod" or pimp the boat for the sake of pimping. He hates hype and gimmicks. His focus is on pure functionality, and solving some of the weaknesses that make the AI less than ideal for Hawaiian waters. So he quietly set out to tweak a list of specific AI features that underwhelmed him. Among them: rudderpins, bungees, sailing position, stability, floatation, nose diving. fighting fish, storage and transport.

Once he started, things grew organically. And once the TI was released, he decided to breed the two boats. :twisted: It's really become a floating laboratory now and the work of refining continues.

Image

The benches are a perfect example. Simple enough idea, but they add excellent rigidity to the frame, permit you to carry virtually anything from a person, to a cooler to a marlin, and still allow you to paddle instantly, whenever you need. They are light, simple and strong. They never catch the wind, or block your view and virtually NOTHING can go wrong with them. (Elm, as with tramps, once the benches are fitted, the Amas do not retract, and there is actually no need or desire to have that happen.)

Image

My own AI has Hobie tramps, and I love them, but every time I struggle to land my boat, or a fish, or am caught in high winds/waves with the tramps on, I appreciate the bench more and more. The polynesians understood this and used the same "Haka" concept on their outrigger sailing canoes. So we couldn't really call that idea unique, even if we wanted to. (Except that, yes- you can easily take them off and make a camp bench with them).

Image

To further answer your question, the 'Haka" bench idea worked out well enough on the AI, but combined with the TI Amas, it's fantastic on the water and comfortably supports a 200lb load (like myself). Or several supermodels. :mrgreen: It should be a great mod for the TI as well.

As it happened, waterproof cameras interested Batman a few weeks ago, and in a couple days he had cooked up an extendable mini camera jib arm that can be operated from the cockpit. :shock: I would not be surpised to see an aluminum bow deflector and rudder next.

Again, all the tweaks are "modular" so the "Kahikolu" can go out buck naked with only AI /TI amas, or with just the batwing fishing weapons deployed, or fully dressed for the prom.

The designer has been fooling around recently with TI mods, such as batwings and other crazy stuff. Last week, I believe he solved the beach transport problem that's been nagging these big suckers. No scupper holes were harmed in the making of his film,.. Please stay tuned for that.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:28 am 
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Just wondering why you made the 'benches' out of timber, rather than alloy box-section?

I'm guessing cost... :-)

I would think alloy would be considerably lighter and longer-lasting?

Mike.


Last edited by mingle on Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:15 am 
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Location: Victoria, Australia
I must admit the above shot does not look as cluttered and brings a bit of perspective to it, I also get what you say about the tramps being either open/rolled/paddling/wind etc compared with the bench tops, though I have become so used to using one tramp, as a second deck when scallop diving, and a bed when the back needed a stretch. There is always a compromise I guess and what suits one persons use, does not suit the next.

I still do not understand the extra bar at the front, I believe you said for strength or stability but cannot see how it is fixed and how it achieves what it does. Thanks for going to the work bringing it to us, looking forward to more instalments and reviews on the performance benefits.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:01 pm 
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I have been watching you progress with the amazing bat boat with a lot of interest as I have been planning to upgrade my 2011 AI with the Ti ama,s to give me high wind performance.
I cant wait to see how it fly's when you push her,I think with the longer TI ama we will be able to fly a bigger area of sale with out sinking them, Please keep us all posted.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:38 pm 
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
What mods would Batman do to the mast holder to get the TI sail on AI batboat? Is it feasible?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:17 pm 
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I doubt it's practical with the length of the TI sail, but we will have a look.

A larger profile AI sail is something I am surprised has not been a pet project in the sailing community. Maybe Hobie has it just right.

Now about that spinnaker,.. :wink:

The Batboat gets a serious open water run on the windward side next weekend, at our camp/sail. The winds tables are pushing 25 mph going into the camping weekend. Should be interesting.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:00 am 
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AlohaDan wrote:
What mods would Batman do to the mast holder to get the TI sail on AI batboat? Is it feasible?


I want a TI sail on a stripped down AI. Mostly light winds here, so I'm a lot more interested in adding sail area than weight.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:08 pm 
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Isn't the jib doing for you Tom? You need more mainsail?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:25 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
Isn't the jib doing for you Tom? You need more mainsail?


I'm lazy. One roller furling sail is easier.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:34 pm 
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Did the TI have joint failure on the Aka and then you reinforced your forward cross-tube or did you already see this as a point of failure?
Just looking at the Bat-Boat this is not a boiler-plate proof of concept but a functional finished product.
The only concern that I have is looking at the pictures and thinking, I can do that. Might be able to make something that looks similar but may not survive on the water as well.
The Pacific Ocean is more unforgiving than the Gulf of Mexico so I believe the engineering by the builder is sound just any copies based on photos may not be so.

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