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 Post subject: Need New Main
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:50 am
Posts: 34
Location: Liberty Lake Washington
What is the recommended Hobie 17 Main these days? Is it still the Whirlwind SuperR Square? Also, I have a white jib that I need to have a window put in. Any recommendations on who can do a great job at a resonable price?

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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:42 am 
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
Posts: 1026
Call your dealer - We have x1 'demo' smoke color scheme H17 sail in stock at 25% off - this is a current color.

To have a window put in a sail, pretty much any sail maker could help you out - in Seattle there are probably 10 + shops. We use Glaser sails in Huntington Beach 714-892-92649


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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:24 pm 
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Location: Liberty Lake Washington
Can anyone tell me the difference between the Whirlwind SuperR Square polyster and pentex? Are they the same material and just different color? If different material which is rated best for performance and long lasting durability? Also, does Hobie make the Smoke (I think the only 17 main available from Hobie) with a square? I would prefer to support Hobie however from what I am reading Whirlwind provides a better sail.

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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
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Location: Jersey Shore
Your sailmaker should be able to answer all your questions regarding materials and construction. I would go to them first. The majority of folks on this board likely just use Hobie OEM sails. Hobie only makes one sail cut for the 17, it's the same pin-head design that's been around since 1986 (more or less).

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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:37 pm 
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Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4623
Location: Detroit, MI
tcrowe30 wrote:
Also, does Hobie make the Smoke (I think the only 17 main available from Hobie) with a square? I would prefer to support Hobie however from what I am reading Whirlwind provides a better sail.

Hobie only makes the class legal sail for the 17, which is not a square top. They do not make any other type of sail for the 17.


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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:50 am
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Location: Liberty Lake Washington
If a square top gives more sail area and performance why doesn't Hobie pursue making these sails? I understand the class legal aspect however going forward is Hobie missing the idea?

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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:46 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI
tcrowe30 wrote:
If a square top gives more sail area and performance why doesn't Hobie pursue making these sails? I understand the class legal aspect however going forward is Hobie missing the idea?

1 - The boat was not designed for a square top sail. The upper mast section is very flexible.
2 - The low product volume doesn't justify the development of a new sail.
3 - Hobie makes class legal sails, period.


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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:15 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:50 am
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Location: Liberty Lake Washington
I must disagree. I have yet to hear anyone report breaking their mast using a Whirlwind sail. In fact for years I have bragged about the ability of being able to take a Hobie out in the most harshish conditions and have the boat come back in one piece. I can tell you for a fact racing against the old Nacra 5.2's in their heyday they fell apart when the wind got above 15 knots so kudos to Hobie. When the wind blew hard the Nacra’s packed up on the trailers and the Hobie’s had a Hobie Day on the water. From your post you make it sound like the 17 is not durable and after having 16's and 18's for so many years you make me think I have purchased the slug of Hobies. Is this true? Did Hobie make a boat that can't handle a few extra feet of sail?

Class legal or not I no longer race so I just want to have fun and performance. Can you truly give me your opinion on which sail you would buy? I still have not made up my mind and I would appreciate anyone using the Hobie pinhead or after markets sails to give their opinion on the best product to buy.

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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:20 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI
tcrowe30 wrote:
I have yet to hear anyone report breaking their mast using a Whirlwind sail.
I never said the boat would break. I said the boat wasn't designed for a square-headed main.

A big part of getting a square headed sail to work properly is being able to put enough leech tension on it with the mainsheet, with resistance provided by the mast. A 17s Comptip isn't going to provide that resistance. (This experience comes from 4 years of racing Tigers with an STX main - and an 9:1 mainsheet.)

Whirlwind sells a square headed main for the 17. Doesn't mean it works the way it's supposed to, or it provides significantly better performance. It's kind of like the big-ass wings that tuners put on the back of their rice rockets. It looks cool, but it really doesn't do anything.
Image

I will say that the Pentex material is far superior to the stock 17 sail, which is stuck using an outdated Mylar taffeta that should have gone away years ago.

I've raced 17s for 20 years. I've won the H17 North Americans twice. You're asking the wrong guy. I'm never going to get anything but a class legal sail for my boat.

BTW, the 17 is a much more fragile boat than a 14 or 16. A lot more durable than say, an A Class Cat, but it's a lot easier to punch a hole in the hull from using rollers on the trailer or letting water freeze in the wing tubes.


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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:32 pm 
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Location: Liberty Lake Washington
Well, I won't get into a pissing match on who can sail a boat better such as your fantastic wins at Nationals. I simply want to find out what is the best use of my $1500. Hobie's sail or after market? You yourself stated the below comment.

MBOUNDS "I will say that the Pentex material is far superior to the stock 17 sail, which is stuck using an outdated Mylar taffeta that should have gone away years ago."

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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2606
Location: Jersey Shore
Another way of looking at it is the latest generation of Hobie sails work quite well, especially in conjunction with a well operating 6:1 downhaul system that can be adjusted from the wings. They have great range, good durability, and are proven to work on the boat. If you get the Hobie sail, you will be satisfied and there more or less shouldn't be any issues.

It's not to say that there aren't other sails out there that will work, and they may even work slightly better (although we're not talking quantum leaps in performance). If you're on the fence about going to an independent sailmaker, you should call the sailmaker and ask for references from people that have bought the exact sail you're looking for. Then contact those people. Again, most of the people on this board are probably using the OEM sail.

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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:42 pm 
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Location: Liberty Lake Washington
That is my sticking point. I would normally go OEM hoever I have seen several posts on the Whirlwind sail in the 17 forum. I would like to stay with a Hobie sail however if I am going to spend $1500 including the battens I want to make sure I purchase a product the best possible product for the long run. I want to order a sail in the next week and I am still on the fence.

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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 578
Location: Knoxville, TN
One consideration that hasn't been voiced yet is resale value. Should you decide to sell your boat one day, it will be more marketable with a Hobie sail. If you go with some other brand, you will automatically exclude a large group of potential buyers who are either class racers or who want to get involved in it. This group, and the 17 class is an active group, won't consider a boat that doesn't have an OEM sail unless you price it cheap enough to make buying a Hobie sail practical. When I've shopped boats in the past, one of the first things I consider is whether the sail is Hobie or not. If you are on the fence, you ought to consider this important point.

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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
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Location: Tri-Cities, WA
I'm sorry, but the Pentex SuperR Whirlwind Squaretop is a far superior sail to the standard Hobie H17 sail. I don’t care if the boat was not ‘designed’ for squaretops; it performs better on all points of the wind in any breeze. Size wise the sails are similar in sqft, but the squaretops power if higher up. The sail is also more forgiving in puffy conditions by twisting off. I know, I have sailed extensively with the OEM Hobie sail and the squaretop. Both sails are in good condition. I still have my OEM, but will only use it if the squaretop fails. Hobie USA is not willing to keep pace with evolving technology. :|


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 Post subject: Re: Need New Main
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4623
Location: Detroit, MI
fastcat wrote:
Hobie USA is not willing to keep pace with evolving technology
That is not a fair or a true statement.

The H17 (more correctly known as "The International Hobie 17") has a set of class rules that are controlled by the International Sailing Federation, not by Hobie Cat.

You are a vocal proponent of Whirlwind's square top sail for the 17. You sail recreationally with that sail and a jib. That's fine.

However, the vast majority of Hobie 17 owners sail with a Hobie OEM sail and are happy to do so. The racers must sail with one according to the class rules. Until the racers decide that they want to start the arduous process of making a change in the class rules (which will cost them all a new sail), then racers are stuck with the current sail. Hobie USA has very little to do with it, other than one vote (of 5) on the IHCA Rules Committee.

It has nothing to do with "Hobie USA not willing to keep pace with evolving technology". It has everything to do with a couple hundred racers not willing to cough up $1,500 just to stay competitive. It would pretty much kill the racing class.


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