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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:42 pm 
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chrisj wrote:
Bo, it seems to me that it is the Swedish dealer who is responsible for this problem. She supplied you with the boat and it was her responsibility to ensure that it was supplied in good condition. If Hobie Europe is being unhelpful, that is her problem, not yours. She should simply supply you with a new hull and sort it out with Hobie Europe herself. Don't they have consumer protection laws in Sweden?

I could not have said it better myself and after
Quote:
(after some eight months)

I would be kicking her door in. The Dealer should have replaced your hull no questions asked (if it is as faulty as you have mentioned and from the factory), then it is up to her and Hobie to sort the rest out. To offer you a patch, if it was only for a week or two while a new hull was coming, reasonable attempt. But after 8 months, as far as I am concerned, an insult.

I love my AI and apart from the gross amount of water that does get in my hull, have no other problem, but here in Australia on several internet forums, there is beginning to be quite a bit of unrest towards the Hobie kayaks, by Hobie owners, about the increasing faults and the cracking hulls. We are all waiting to see what a coroner will have to say if there is a death because of faults in the kayak hull.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:15 pm 
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ELM wrote:
chrisj wrote:
increasing faults and the cracking hulls. We are all waiting to see what a coroner will have to say if there is a death because of faults in the kayak hull.

It's not up to us as onlookers to go after Hobie with tar and feathers or linch them without all the facts. Also by sensationalising this particular issue with 'death', I think, is a bit over the top. I think we are all getting a bit ahead of ourselves. Increasing fault and cracking hulls ? It seems to me that Hobie have done a bloody good job of addressing the cracking hulls by introducing 'click and go' so that twist cam columns and pressure on the drive landing were eliminated. And even with that, Hobie replaced the hulls, even out of warranty. Cracking hulls due to incorrect cart fitment is another issue Hobie have acknowledged and are currently addressing with a new cart design. I think we are lucky that we deal with a company that seem to listen to our complaints and address them if needed.

With the facts that we have been given, this issue sounds like dealer incompetence. I don't know how the Hobie Company is structured but the comment ' Hobie U.S. say that it's Hobie Europe's problem' is something I would want to see in writing rather than just read it and believe it on a forum.

I agree though ELM that 8 months is out of the question and a door kick is long overdue.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:35 am 
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Location: Täby, Sweden
BREAKING NEWS
HOBIE EUROPE HAS PROMISED TO REPLACE MY HULL.

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Taby
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:11 am 
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That is great news, Boka! Be sure to let us know when delivery actually takes place.

Slaughter--well put.

Keith

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Last edited by Chekika on Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:46 am 
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Too... this leak issue would be easily solved by filling the area with some sealant. It is not a safety issue by any means.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:19 am 
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Location: Sollentuna, Sweden, Europe
mmiller wrote:
Too... this leak issue would be easily solved by filling the area with some sealant. It is not a safety issue by any means.


Excuse me, but...
I consider ALL hatches as somekind of safety issue.
The front hatch is the biggest one and I want for sure that it is proper secured and locked.
I would not want to have the experience of bungee end snapping loose when I am out in windy and choppy conditions.
At some point you need to change cord and that is an easy task to perform if everything is intact as it should be. But from the simple drawing that Boka attached, I got the impression that it would not be so easy to repair correctly.
At least not for me.

thomas
Sweden


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:21 pm 
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When I first got my 1997 Hobie AI one year ago I would get water in the hull after every outing. I thought this was normal and used a towel to soak it up. Then there was too much water for a towel and I started using a Ryobie Vacuum to remove the water. After a three hour cruise at 4.2 knots I got over a gallon of water out of the hull. I pressurized the hull and sprayed it with soapy water and found no evidence of leakage. Even after a heavy rain with the hobie stored top us I would get a quart or two of water. I went by the dealers and they found a tiny imperfection and two days ago I picked up my new hull. What a surprise for me to go out for three hours and have a dry hull at the end of the sail. And it is possible that I will get the new rudder too. For pictures of the new rudder see www.sf260w.com/EC
It is amazing. The increase in water in the hull was so insidious that I thought it was to be expected. What I still cannot understand is how the water got sprayed onto the underside of my main access cover that is in the cockpit.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:50 pm 
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I think I would have poured a polyeurethane compound into the hole, to the height of the threaded section of plug, and then after it set up I would just drill and tap it to fit the hobie plug.

But then I live in a place where warranty doesn't mean anything if it involves sending stuff back.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:33 pm 
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Well I would more consider myself a user than an onlooker Slaughter. I have a personnel interest in my own safety and I have only reported what is being said by others here in Australia. One individual posted his own experiences and now distrust in the Hobie product because of cracking hulls. His post was soon joined by several more and pretty much all of them "used to be" loyal Hobie customers.
I have always expressed how good Hobie service has been and also how well my own local dealer has looked after me, but I still have large quantities of unexplained water getting inside my own kayak.

Both on this forum and on plenty of others, people have told of their sinking kayaks and of there near miss to what could have very easily have become a tragedy. If there is a drowning, it will go to a cornier (well here in Australia anyway), and if it is found that a crack in the hull was a contributing factor (and this goes for all manufacturers not just Hobie), then just where will that manufacturer stand.
Specially if there is a long public history and it still continues in the new models as well.
With out a doubt Hobie have made advancements and I can only imagine that they are still trying to make advancements, but if Hobie and their distributors choose to ignore faults like this one, then they leave themselves open to inqests and the product dissatisfaction will increase to grow.

mmiller wrote:
Too... this leak issue would be easily solved by filling the area with some sealant. It is not a safety issue by any means.

From what I have read, the guy cannot even get the bungy plug to stay in properly and his kayak had a fairly reasonable leak inside his hull. You have to be kidding to say it is not a safety issue, he certainly did not feel safe using it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:00 pm 
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Some fair points ELM and I agree with most, and I'm sure Hobie are more aware of legal issues and implications than we are. My only real point is that what is virtually a dry hull to one user, is an 'oh no my boat is sinking' to another. If this happened to us, we all would have handled this issue differently. I personally would have complained to the dealer in person, then in writing for legal proof, then if there is no satisfactory action, approach the Dept. of Fair Trading, then ask for assistance on the forum, then choose a fix and see how it goes so I don't miss out on valuable sailing time. Another user may fly to the Hobie factory and waltz in with an AK47.
But with this particular crack, the photos and description, for me, are too sketchy to make a accurate call.

I also have a Feel Free kayak for Bass fishing that leaks 10 time more water into the hull than my AI. Feel Free don't have a forum so I wouldn't know one way or another if this is a common issue or not. Quite frankly, I don't really care. I just bail it out when needed. But when Hobie develop and support a forum, it's a bit of a double edge sword. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I tend to like their approach and think that they go about issues like this in a sensible way.

Hope this is just a constructive discussion mate and we buy each other a beer at the end of it ! :)
I'll buy the first.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Elm, perhaps you could post a direct link to the forum containing the complaints about cracking hulls. Second hand reports of what others have said tend to be unconvincing.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:55 pm 
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chrisj wrote:
Elm, perhaps you could post a direct link to the forum containing the complaints about cracking hulls. Second hand reports of what others have said tend to be unconvincing.


[url]http://www.kfdu.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15627&
hilit=hull+crack[/url]
There was a similar thread also on AKFF that started around the same but I have been unable to find it, but my observation of it is supported that it did at least exist here;http://www.vyak.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4321&p=41415&hilit=Hobie+issues#p41415
and further discussion on the same forum here;
http://www.vyak.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4289
These sorts of topics jump up reasonable often and Hobie are normally straight on to it and rectify the problem, unlike some other brands that have seen. However the problem does seem to arise more often in Hobie models and it is being questioned more and more.

I know this looks like I am bagging Hobie and I want to make it clear, that is not my intention. I am simple pointing out that from where I sit and and from what I often read, there is a growing distrust in the product and as I said above, someone having a (what appeared to be) a manufacturing default that should of been fixed straight away, not 8 months later, it does look poor when this type of thing happens.

Slaughter wrote:
But when Hobie develop and support a forum, it's a bit of a double edge sword. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I tend to like their approach and think that they go about issues like this in a sensible way.

Agree it is a double edged sword and Hobie & their distributors, from what I see both personally and on public forums etc, do deal with things well, most of the time.
Quote:
Hope this is just a constructive discussion mate and we buy each other a beer at the end of it ! :)
I'll buy the first.

Never thought it was anything different and hopefully in the future it will be a sail then a beer, well you can have the beers, I am now off it and will have coke instead :wink: .


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:22 pm 
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Thanks for that ELM. I must admit I had thought the problem of cracks in the drivewell had been solved with the introduction of the Click 'N Go drive mount, until last week at the Sydney Harbour gathering, when Stringy showed me his new hull, which he'd received to replace his 2010 hull which had cracked in the drivewell.
You'd have to wonder if the Turbo fins just exert too much force.
I guess the problem with the rotomoulding process is that the material is distributed more or less evenly around the mould, so that to strengthen one area, such as the drivewell or the scupper tubes, you have to increase the thickness of the hull all over, with substantial increase in the weight.
At least with the AI/TI the boat will stay afloat even with the hull full of water, so it's less of a risk to life.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:54 am 
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chrisj wrote:
You'd have to wonder if the Turbo fins just exert too much force.
I guess the problem with the rotomoulding process is that the material is distributed more or less evenly around the mould, so that to strengthen one area, such as the drivewell or the scupper tubes, you have to increase the thickness of the hull all over, with substantial increase in the weight.

I sort of wonder if the rotomoulding process is a bit hit and miss. I don't know enough about the process but I wonder if you cut apart a few hulls straight off the production line and checked the thickness, how similar they would be ie: why do some crack and others don't ? Did Stingys crack in the usual 1/2" place between the plugged hole and the drive landing ? Looks like I spoke too soon ELM !

And ELM, I hope to be down that way early next year so I'll be more than happy with a sail and a couple of Cokes. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:44 am 
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Personally, I would not take delivery of a new AI/TI until after I checked every cup (shock cord, seat peg, cleat) visually or at least manually. These are weak points in the boats (probably not only Hobie). Hobie could easily solve the problem of defective cups by doing a thorough check before the hull leaves the factory. This problem is bad for business, as I am sure Hobie knows.

Keith

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