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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:04 pm 
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We're not using a standard trolling motor and thus don't require any sort of standard mount.

............


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:26 pm 
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So tom's $500 motor still isn't a reality. I was on board believing something was coming to market, but really it isn't anytime soon. I'm inpatient and moving on to Bassyak's or something. Need propulsion and the endless hoping he'll get it together has run too long.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:44 pm 
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To injection mold parts and pieces isn't something you can do overnight. Nor do you want to put something on the market until you are 100% certain that there are no unsuspected surprises. There are now 10 of these units in use and once we are 100% certain they do everything they were designed to do production will move forward. Thus far, there have been no problems.

If you think I'm making this this up or it's some sort of fairy tale, bring a PA equipped eVolve, Bassyak or anything else to High Point and I'll join you on a local city lake and you can run with me (for a awhile, anyway).

I never told anyone to hold off buying something else. If you wish to power your PA right now, I'd recommend buying an eVolve or Bassyak unit or rigging up something as has already been shown on the forum here by several people.

.............


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:43 pm 
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To stave off more PMs, I would like to clarify something - the system that I designed and developed for powering a Pro Angler was not brought into being with the mindset of going into business and selling such units to PA owners. I developed this system because I couldn’t find anything that was inexpensive enough or performed well enough to suit me. Therefore I built one for... me. The idea that no such system exists or that it won’t do what I claim it will do is simply silly. I had and have no reason to mislead anyone as this isn’t something I ever had any intent to sell. (And you can join me on the water anytime and see for yourself what it's capable of.)

Shortly afterwards a friend who is also a PA owner saw mine and asked if he could work with me on making one for his boat - he had previously worked with me on powering our PA's with a motorized Mirage Unit (we still believe that's a great way to go, but got sidetracked on something else). Thus, unit #2 was built and it was even better than my initial unit. Since then, several owners of PAs in the local area have seen ours and asked if I would make them one. I won't - I already have a job and never had any plans to put this unit on the market. It would be too time consuming to have to machine and fabricate certain parts one at a time. I had and have no interest in being in the motorized PA business.

So I spoke to Hobie about it (Matt and a Hobie engineer) and offered it to them as a means of getting an inexpensive and truly outstanding performing unit on the market for other PA owners. I thought it would make a terrific $500 accessory and Hobie certainly has the manufacturing capacity and buying power to perhaps sell it for even less. Hobie declined - Matt said he felt the 18lb total weight of the EVolve system was a greater selling point for most PA owners than a much lower price would be. The engineer thanked me but said Hobie was looking at developing their own unit at some point in the future. Hobie is a great company and I certainly respect their decision.

In the meantime I have been inundated with PA owners who have seen the two YouTube videos and thus have offered the system to a local manufacturer who seems intent to fully test it and most likely begin producing the necessary parts. But others have offered to do the same before and backed out once they determined the cost to injection mold the special parts against the expected sales. I hope the present person/company involved will move ahead - there are more PAs on the water everyday. The market is growing fast so they seem to be headed to market.

That’s all I can tell anyone at this point. The idea that because I won't make these units for people it must not really exist or that I'm making up the performance claims is silly. I don’t manufacture kayak accessories nor power units. I never intended to. I simply made something for myself, others saw it perform and they want it. It seems commercially viable so I've done quite a bit of work to get somebody to produce it in quantity and I hope that they'll follow through.

In the meantime, if you have an EVolve or BassYak set up and want to go head to head, let me know and we'll see if we can arrange a time and place to meet. If you want to go fishing, that's even better.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:13 am 
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I think everyone who is interested in Tom's system should just let their interests go....Obviously, he isn't willing to show anyone just what it is, and has already stated multiple times that he's talked with other companies who seem interested in it. But regardless, none of us are going to see it unless it is produced, of which point if he chooses, Tom can tell everyone that that product was his.

So, that being said, this thread should become ways that people have chosen to power their PAs, or set up a motor on it; and not the hope that people will get to see Tom's little unit :lol: :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:22 am 
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Well said. Thanks.

In the meantime, anyone that wants to put their EVolve or BassYak units up against my "little unit" is free to contact me for a local day on the water.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:31 am 
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Location: Winston-Salem NC
Tom-- are you the guy in the motorized PA that fishes Randleman in Randolph Co.?
I have seen two green PAs ripping around there and no there is way anybody can pedal that fast but I see no motors on the back of either PA.The guys in the You Tube vids look like the guys I saw back in April.

I am in Winston-Salem and bought a yellow PA from GOP at Thruway about three months ago. I may not be able to keep up with you guys but would love to fish with you and learn more about what you are doing. Please PM me if this is possible.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:24 am 
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I have read this whole thread, and I just don't get the point. I'm not trying to bash the OP, but all this talk about your system, has seemed to be just that, talk. Why even announce your idea, only to deny everyone that has asked about it? Is it an ego thing or what?

I know this is my first post, but I signed up hoping to find some info about the Hobie PA's, as I just bought one a week ago. And then I found this thread.

Any motor system costing over $500 is a rip-off, after spending $2000+ on a PA, when you could easily make a system yourself. And if you take your time, it won't look "jerry-rigged" as the OP has claimed other motor systems will look if you don't use injection moulding and blah, blah, blah.

I'll do something that the OP has YET to do in this whole thread, and tell you how you can make your own motor system for your PA that will cost less than $300. It may even be closer to $200.

You know that black plug that comes with your PA, to plug the mirage drive? That part is the only specality part you will need for the whole build. You can use that part, and fill it with high-density foam or better yet, a rubber compound, to make it solid. A hole is then drilled through the solid block you just made, big enough to accomidate a trolling motor shaft. (The size of the hole will have to depend on the trolling motor you will be using). The head of the TM will have to be removed, and the shaft and wires inserted through the hole in the plug block. Now, when it is re-assembled, you can either fix-mount it in a straight position to the block so it cannot move, or use the adjustable depth ring clamps that come on most TM's as a stop so you can control the depth and move the TM from side to side to steer it.

Now, you can figure out where you want to run your wires according to where you want to place your battery.

As far as the TM it's self, there are many options to choose from. For quiet lakes and small rivers, I have a Sevylor 18lb thrust TM that weighs only 5lbs. Sevylor also makes a 30lb thrust that weighs a little more, and they also make saltwater versions of both.

With the 18lb thrust motor, I have a sealed wheelchair battery that weighs only 18lbs, and it can keep me going for the majority of the day. No problem on a 4-6 hour trip at all.

just about anybody can make this setup, and it is effective. It just depends on what TM and battery you want to use, as far as how fast and far you want to go.

To the OP, I am really trying not to be offensive, but you seem to be trying to keep some big secrete from the world, that even a red-neck from KY can come up with.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:46 am 
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Who or what is the "OP?"

If this Tom's system I have seen it in action but only from a little distance and it rips across the water. Plus they still have their mirage drive units in place so can keep using them once they get to their destination. Looks like the same boats and guys that are in the You Tube vids. Next time I am at Randleman and see them I will take my OWN vids and post for others to see.

I would not begrudge anyone the right to keep a potentially commercial profitable design a secret. I do not think that Coca Cola will give you the formula to their soda. Does that make them bad people??


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:20 pm 
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RHale wrote:
Who or what is the "OP?"

If this Tom's system I have seen it in action but only from a little distance and it rips across the water. Plus they still have their mirage drive units in place so can keep using them once they get to their destination. Looks like the same boats and guys that are in the You Tube vids. Next time I am at Randleman and see them I will take my OWN vids and post for others to see.

I would not begrudge anyone the right to keep a potentially commercial profitable design a secret. I do not think that Coca Cola will give you the formula to their soda. Does that make them bad people??



The "OP" is the "Original Poster".

By all means, keep it under wraps if it going to become a mass produced item. But, the OP has not done that. He has went on and on about this thing, but it has went nowhere in this thread. It's like he wanted to tell everyone about it to get them asking questions, but really has nothing to show to the people asking the questions. "The wave of the future" is in the title of the thread, but there isn't anything to see.

If it is a marketable product, then why is he having such a hard time getting the prototypes and production under-way? He said himself that he has talked to people that have backed out for whatever reason, which makes me wonder if there is anything special there, or anything at all really.

My point is if you are going to beat your drum about a product or idea, shouldn't you have them means to back it up or at least answer questions about how the magic system works? There has been a lot of "I can't answer that now" replys in this thread. People can only go along with that for so long before they start to think something smells fishy.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Any company that plans to put something into production must weigh the cost of doing so against the expected sales. Compared to other kayaks, there are still relatively few PA's on the water, thus far anyway. That number will grow in time.

For now, there are some parts that need to be injection molded. Such a mold will cost anywhere from $20,000 to $50,000 (from what they're telling me). How many units will have to be sold at $500 each in order to recoup that initial mold fee? This, not any performance issue, is what has scared some companies away. This unit is unique to the PA and isn't adaptable (not easily anyway) to any run of the mill kayak. So the sales are limited to PA owners. From what I've been told, the Torqueedo folks have yet to sell even two dozen of the Evolve systems to PA owners (but this may not be accurate).

The motor unit is not an off-the-shelf trolling motor. To get a price that would meet the expected retail price point requires an initial buy of 500 motors. Here's another stopping point for many companies who are not sure they could sell 500 of these units to PA anglers in a year's time.

I don't quite understand the statement "something smells fishy." The You Tube videos are proof that the system works. Others have seen it work. If you think I've got a bass boat somewhere up ahead pulling me, I'd suggest you look at the video a bit more closely. The idea that I'm making this up, that it really doesn't exist or simply isn't possible is simply silly. It does exist and it works exactly as I've stated. RHale has seen it and if we can get together, he'll see it again. We've been using it for a year and have been extremely pleased with all aspects of it. My reputation in the fishing industry is beyond reproach. Many of the features found on Native and Wilderness Systems kayaks were designed by me. I have no need to make anything up or cook up some sort of a camera trick.

For the last time, anyone that wishes to put an Evolve or BassYak system up against my system please just PM me and we'll arrange a time and place to go head to head. If you want to spend a little time fishing, that's even better. Until then, I'm having a great time with my motorized PA.

http://www.rodmakermagazine.com and http://www.rodexpo.com


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:32 pm 
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Tom Kirkman wrote:
Any company that plans to put something into production must weigh the cost of doing so against the expected sales. Compared to other kayaks, there are still relatively few PA's on the water, thus far anyway. That number will grow in time.

For now, there are some parts that need to be injection molded. Such a mold will cost anywhere from $20,000 to $50,000 (from what they're telling me). How many units will have to be sold at $500 each in order to recoup that initial mold fee? This, not any performance issue, is what has scared some companies away. This unit is unique to the PA and isn't adaptable (not easily anyway) to any run of the mill kayak. So the sales are limited to PA owners. From what I've been told, the Torqueedo folks have yet to sell even two dozen of the Evolve systems to PA owners (but this may not be accurate).

The motor unit is not an off-the-shelf trolling motor. To get a price that would meet the expected retail price point requires an initial buy of 500 motors. Here's another stopping point for many companies who are not sure they could sell 500 of these units to PA anglers in a year's time.

I don't quite understand the statement "something smells fishy." The You Tube videos are proof that the system works. Others have seen it work. If you think I've got a bass boat somewhere up ahead pulling me, I'd suggest you look at the video a bit more closely. The idea that I'm making this up, that it really doesn't exist or simply isn't possible is simply silly. It does exist and it works exactly as I've stated. RHale has seen it and if we can get together, he'll see it again. We've been using it for a year and have been extremely pleased with all aspects of it. My reputation in the fishing industry is beyond reproach. Many of the features found on Native and Wilderness Systems kayaks were designed by me. I have no need to make anything up or cook up some sort of a camera trick.

For the last time, anyone that wishes to put an Evolve or BassYak system up against my system please just PM me and we'll arrange a time and place to go head to head. If you want to spend a little time fishing, that's even better. Until then, I'm having a great time with my motorized PA.

http://www.rodmakermagazine.com and http://www.rodexpo.com


So, you will put the boat up against other PA's with motor systems, and you have designed parts for native kayaks, but you are still having a hard time getting this system put into action? It still smells fishy to me. There is just nothing to show for all of this talk about the system that you have gone on and on about, but won't go into any detail on.

And how is this not a "regular Trolling motor", that goes into the design? Or is that something you can't tell us at this time? No offense meant, but how can anybody be interested in an idea that we get no details about?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:43 pm 
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Tom Kirkman wrote:
the Torqueedo folks have yet to sell even two dozen of the Evolve systems to PA owners (but this may not be accurate).


Yeah... your numbers there are not accurate. We have no real way of knowing how many eVolves (Hobie sells eVolve not Torqeedo) are sold for Pro Anglers specifically, but we are in the many hundreds or units sold of the eVolve system.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:59 pm 
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Matt,

Thanks. As I said the number that I was given may not have been accurate. Your figures are very encouraging and I'll pass them along. It's good to know that so many have been sold.

As far as anything being "fishy," could someone please explain? Are you saying my system does not work? Cannot push the boat past a couple MPH? The video was faked? I was being towed by a bass boat? Exactly what was "fishy." Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:12 pm 
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Tom has a GREAT system. I have seen it in action from a little distance. It rips! But I never did see the motor. It does not look like a regular trolling motor set up to me.

I think some are just jealous. I know I am. You see something that works so well and you want it, but cannot get it. I know the feeling. I hope it comes to market soon. I cannot afford $2K for the Evolve system although I am sure it is great. If I could get a professional worthy system like that for $500 or under I would buy it today. Good luck and I hope to see it make it to the market soon.


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