Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:50 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:28 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
When I returned from a normal sailing trip this week I noticed that my mast was at an odd angle. The Mast Receiver assembly was not straight either. At first I couldn't figure out what could possibly be wrong. I thought perhaps the Mast Bearing Plate was cracked (as has happened on some boats). However as far as I can tell I have not seen any cracks in the welds around this area.

I finally discovered the problem when I opened my forward hatch. That's where I found the sheared Screw Socket, the loose V-Frame Base, and the bottom of the Mast Receiver pulled away from the bottom of the hull. This is on my 2011 TI. Not Good!

Tilted Mast:
Image

Tilted Mast Receiver Assembly:
Image

Front view showing the sheared 1/4" Socket Screw:
Image

Side view showing 1/2" gap:
Image

Rear View showing 1/2" gap:
Image

I regularly inspect all my fittings, bolts, braces etc, and I perform all the suggested routine maintenance to keep my boat in good condition. There was nothing prior to this to indicate there was any problem. I remember hearing the famous "popping sounds" from the Mast Receiver area that people have talked about in previous posts, but that was a long time ago and I have sailed dozens of times since then.

After emailing Hobie they advised me to file a warranty claim thru my dealer, which I have done. I understand nuts and bolts, but my real concern is that the bottom of the Mast Receiver is now about ½" away from the bottom of the hull and I have no idea how it's going to get pulled back to where it's supposed to be? Has anyone else had this happen to their boat? Other than the sheared Socket Screw, what has actually caused this ½" gap? Will we find additional internal bolts sheared, coming up from the bottom of the hull as well? This is a very tight area to work in. Matt, what is the correct repair procedure to follow? This is all I have been able to find on the topic so far:

From March 2011.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=34203&p=138369#p138369

Paul Kral aka Dogs Life, made a very interesting observation and comment about the problems associated with using standard stainless steel fasteners in this environment. Has Hobie upgraded their connecting hardware in area of the V-Frame Base?

It happened to a couple of people on the Everglades Challenge this year:
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=34203&p=138369#p138369

This related post is from 09/09. It's on an older style AI.
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=14472&p=88396&hilit=frame+screw#p88396

Matt: Can you please answer these questions to assist me and my dealer so we can repair this properly. Thank you.

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:51 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9328
Location: Oceanside, California
Loosen the "V" brace. You will have to take out the receiver to replace the screw. I believe we have changed screws now to a tougher material. Once you re-assemble you can orient into the correct position over the screw.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
Matt,
Thanks much for getting back to me so quickly! Adventure Times in WPB has put in for this claim, can you make sure that they receive all the necessary and up to date repair hardware please.

What is the order in which the V-Base assembly is put back together? Do we start with the top two Socket Screws, then the bottom one? and to what degree are the Turnbuckles tightened?

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:40 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
sEs,
I'm sorry you experienced this failure. After reading of the EC Challenge problems back in March I checked my socket screw and posted the results here.viewtopic.php?f=75&t=34466&p=138424
I ordered a couple of socket screws at the time from my dealer and they have been on backorder since then! :?

Hobie (Matt or Steve)
What is happening regarding the supply of these socket screws? When are we getting the updated screws here in Aus? Can you provide the correct TI part number or is it the same as the AI?

I have been using the bent screw and would hate to have it break out on the water. :(


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:09 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
Stringy
Yeah, kind of put a damper on my Fathers Day plans. :x I had found and read your post and meant to include it, but somehow it got left out. Thanks though for bringing attention to this problem as well. I'll know a lot more about what actually caused the lower socket screw to shear when we begin taking everything apart. Hopefully my new parts will arrive soon, I'll get back out sailing again, and this is just an isolated incident.

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:55 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
sEs,
Bad luck for Fathers Day. :(
I'm thinking the screw has either not been tightened correctly or works loose.
As I posted there was no sign of loctite on the threads. If the V-Brace assembly is slightly loose the thin socket screw gets subject to shear whereas it should only be in tension.
It is difficult to check the tension on it as the locknut needs to loosened. I made sure the bent screw I have was well tightened before I did the lock nut up and haven't had any problem since.
Thanks for posting as it reminded me to chase up supply of the socket screw to replace the bent screw. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:22 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
Stringy,

Thanks so much for your help. For the sake of clarity though, can we identify which screws we're talking about. There are 3 Socket Screws visible on the V-Frame: 2 on both sides of the top section that are attached to the Crossbar Brace via the upper V-Frame Strut, and 1 on the bottom that is goes through the V-Frame Base into the Mast Receiver. All three on my TI have/had a nylon lock nut. OK with this so far?

The question I'm most curious about is: What caused the base of my Mast receiver to separate and lift away from the bottom of my hull by about 1/2" :?: The Socket Screw that sheared on mine is the bottom Socket Screw. As far as I can determine, all it does is hold the bottom of the Mast Receiver to the base of the V-Frame. I can't see how when I replace just this screw it will bring the Mast Receiver back down to where it belongs. Have you ever had to disassemble your entire assembly? There must be other screws underneath the Mast Receiver that I can't see yet that performs this function. Which screws are you referring to that you used loctite on, and which screws are you referring to when you wrote "I made sure the bent screw I have was well tightened before I did the lock nut up and haven't had any problem since".

In the meantime, I'll see what else I can break on my boat to help remind you to stock up on spare parts. :P

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:34 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
'In the meantime, I'll see what else I can break on my boat to help remind you to stock up on spare parts.'
:lol: :lol: :lol:

sEs,
I was referring to the single lower socket screw at the VBrace base. It's my understanding that this is the only screw that connects the base of the VBrace/mast tube to the hull. There is a tapped molded in brass section that creates the 2 hull humps (nubs) you see under the mast tube. The forward nub is tapped for the socket screw. The single socket screw pulls the mast assembly down or brings the lower hull up until the 2 nubs wedge into place. This stops any sideways or fore/aft movement of the mast tube. If the socket screw loosens then the shear forces of the mast tube snap the socket screw.
It's important to screw the socket screw all the way home into the brass fitting and then securely tighten the locknut to compress the VBrace/mast tube assembly tightly into the nubs.
With use over time either the socket screw is loosening from the brass molding or the lock nut is loosening. I suspect it's the locknut as I have just rechecked mine and it was loose again. The socket screw seemed still tight in the molding.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:43 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9328
Location: Oceanside, California
sun E sailor wrote:
What is the order in which the V-Base assembly is put back together? Do we start with the top two Socket Screws, then the bottom one? and to what degree are the Turnbuckles tightened?


Expand the v-brace to push up and seat on the deck (2) screws and down on the keel screw. I think that is it for V Brace adjustment on this model.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:12 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
Matt, Stringy,

Thanks guys, but it's late and I've only just had a chance to read your responses. Let me re-read this again in the am when I'm clearer.
Matt, are we on the right path so far - do you concur with Stringy's assessment in conjunction with yours?

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:05 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
Amazing what a good night's rest can do.
Thanks Stringy and Matt, I understand now what you're talking about as far as the functioning of the lower Socket Screw.

I tried this morning, and from inside the hull I was able to get the tip of my pinky finger up inside the gap underneath the Mast Receiver where I can just about feel the middle section of the sheared Socket Screw. (The one that was pictured in my first post with just the lok-nut still attached).

I believe this is the screw you're talking about that's still embedded into the "tapped molded brass fitting" on the bottom of the hull.
I'm going to call this one the "Forward Socket Screw", because I think there is another one directly behind it.

View from the underside of my hull directly underneath the area of the Mast Receiver showing a nylon plug over the brass fitting... correct?
Image

But there's two plugs here so I'm assuming there's a second Socket Screw that's hidden somewhere that must also play a part in pulling the Mast Receiver back to the hull? If that's true than this screw must be broken as well or else how could there be the gap?

Matt: Are there two Socket Screws under the Mast Receiver; one forward of the other, and do we use loctite when we put these screws back inside the brass fitting?

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:54 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:34 pm
Posts: 69
Location: Australia
stringy wrote:
sEs,
Hobie (Matt or Steve)
(


The PN is 88991215.
The goods are on the way to Aus. Once here, we will get them out.
Steve

_________________
Steve Fields
Hobie Cat Australasia
Huskisson NSW Australia
http://www.hobiecat.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:26 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9328
Location: Oceanside, California
Quote:
Matt, are we on the right path so far - do you concur with Stringy's assessment in conjunction with yours?


His detail is correct.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:24 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Thanks for those details Steve. I look forward to their supply here. So it is now a different part# to the AI or have both changed?

sEs,
When I get the new screw socket I'm going to add a second locknut to prevent it loosening. There should be enough thread left for this. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:11 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9328
Location: Oceanside, California
New part number as shown... only for the TI.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group