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 Post subject: Up wind rudder stall
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:18 am 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:36 am
Posts: 59
Hey Guys,
Last night wind 15 -18, nice double trap conditions, beautiful start, i have windward position with speed but am sailing 5 degrees +/- lower than the rest of the fleet. I start to feather up to match the competition(in land lake with relatively short legs) and the boat loses all speed and I can't bring it back as the rudders are stalled and turned 45 degrees with no response other than bringing ther boat to a complete stop.
My thinking is that I may be raked too far back. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

John
Austin Lake
Mich


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:12 am 
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Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4592
Location: Detroit, MI
John,

For sure if you've got the rudders turned at 45 degrees, they're going to stall. Even EPO's won't tolerate that angle of attack :)

But what it sounds like is that you stalled the leeward hull. Don't forget that you've got no daggerboards, so keeping the flow attached to the hull is pretty important.

The only cure for stalled hulls is to ease the main (not the jib) to help the boat bear off, get going again, then power back up. Try to use the sails to help steer the boat.

This especially important in flat water (Austin Lake) when you've got your weight way forward and the rudders are lifting out.

How far were you travelled off? (Main and jib?) What was your total crew weight?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:36 am
Posts: 59
Hey Matt,
Main traveler out just a couple of inches, the jib out more. Laura and I are about 300#
The balance of the fleet seemed to be higher relative to me with the same speed. :( I'm a little confused. Part of it is tuning this boat in. I think I may be raked too far back.


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 Post subject: Weight distriution
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:35 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:02 am
Posts: 16
OK, so if rudder stalls what can be done is easing the main.
But what about weight?. Stalling happens often with a lot of weight forward, maybe moving aft would help to get out. Any tips?


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 Post subject: Weight aft...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:20 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8979
Location: Oceanside, California
I agree. If you are driviing the bows down on a 16 with weight forward, you can stall the rudders. 16's in that much wind should be sailed with crew weight all the way aft at the rear of the side bar. Sometimes with the skipper's aft leg on the hull rail aft of the tramp.

Keep weight slightly forward to get moving then move weight aft as the boat accelerates.

You are only raked too far aft if you cannot sheet the sails tightly enough for that days / races wind speed (without over sheeting of course).


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 Post subject: Re: Up wind rudder stall
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:00 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:16 am
Posts: 1
OK guys, so I am new to this hobie 16 world, and have excepted the fact that my great sunfish skipper experience, gives me approximately 0% help to sail this thing... Oh, don't get me wrong, I have no problem setting it up, and taking off, in full view of amazed onlookers awed by its majestic sail...

But then comes the tack... I have tried a million things and red up all the instructions and suggestions I can find, and I can't turn this thing past the point where the wind will catch the sail and push the cat in the other direction. (sorry, as a sunfish skipper I never learned sailing lingo)

I always end up pointing perfectly into the wind, literally stuck for minutes unable to turn the thing rite or left. I have resorted to tacking by turning down wind; and let me tell you... no problemo turning it that way... most of the time, upside down...

... my Portuguese forefathers would not be impressed... help..

PS come to think of it, my sale isn't all that majestic... I think the boat might be 100 years old...


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 Post subject: Re: Up wind rudder stall
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:54 am 
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Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:36 am
Posts: 285
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Quote:
I can't turn this thing past the point where the wind will catch the sail and push the cat in the other direction.

Are you sheeting out the main as the bows approach/cross head to wind and if so, how much?


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 Post subject: Re: Up wind rudder stall
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4592
Location: Detroit, MI
Also, don't throw the tiller down hard. Steer through the tack without stalling the rudders.


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 Post subject: Re: Up wind rudder stall
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:02 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:07 pm
Posts: 17
I raked my mast back to far recently and found the same thing. NO tack at all past head to wind. Couldn't point very high. When compared to other boats, we were about the same rake, except for our weight. When you are overweight to start with, you need more power and that means mast more forward.


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