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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:27 pm 
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I noticed Josh that the alignment of top and bottom moulds at the scupper holes is a bit out. Probably 3-5mm on mine. So that when the cart posts go in, there is this 3-5mm ledge that the posts can hit.

There was a bit of a ledge on mine to, which I sorted out with a heat gun and dremel. Also put a beveled edge on the brushes to, so the dome cart post slides in without obstruction. And like Fusioneng, I now have more confidence wheeling my yak around. Just the other day I had to wheel over 60 metres of lumpy rocky beach and without that reinforcing, might have damaged the yak.

By the way... I did cop some grief from a Hobie staff member for this modification (I think because it would be easy to get this wrong), so even though they are indeed planning something similar for the future (no doubt the factory version will be far superior) I think that one should approach such a modification with caution - its probably a warranty voider. Getting it wrong could make matters worse.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Yackass:
I'm sure I have no fans at the Hobie factory. All the mods I have made to my boats (most done long ago before publishing anything) are for my own purpose only for just my boat, it makes no difference to me if anyone else makes any of the mods (Jibs, Spinakers, furlers, hydrofoils, and scupper/hull re-enforcement, etc). I did the work to get the boat to fit the conditions I normally sail (low wind coastal sailing, and excursions), and got tired of damaging the boat every time I tried to use the scupper cart to launch and retrieve the boat in normal conditions. Scupper carts and transportation is probably the most talked about subject on the forum. I normally wouldn't share or publish what I do to my own boats, but was asked by other forum members to start sharing some of my ideas and mods (probably a mistake on my part). In my opinion the TI (and AI) are the most versatile boats on the market today, and a better value than anything else on the market. Any chance I get I try to promote the AI/TI boats and Hobie as a company I do. Not because I have any association with Hobie (which I don't), I am just so personally impressed with the product and the company I try to share some of my experiences and ideas with other Hobie owners. We have all been aware of the scupper cart problems on the TI for over a year now, and have been patiently awaiting a permanent fix from Hobie. I simply got tired of waiting and fixed the problem on my own boat (it will never break again), I could care less personally if anyone else does the fix, but I thought I would share in the interest of trying to solve an obvious ongoing problem. I understand that Hobie is finally coming out with a new cart design in the coming weeks that should fix the problem, but fact of the matter is we have been waiting for this fix for over a year now. I'm sure the reason they are mad is because they were looking to sell these new super carts for a few hundred bucks, promising to fix the obvious problem. I'm sure they are peaved at me for publishing a one dollar fix (scupper hole re-enforcement), and $15 dollar fix (to modify existing carts and re-enforce the hull itself) to fix the problem just as they are about to release their new super cart for sale. I don't see how shoving a one dollar piece of PVC pipe into a hole can void the warranty, no changes of any kind are made to the boat itself, and is easily removed. In the future I probably should keep this stuff to myself. By the way I really enjoy your adventures, and respect you very much.
Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:16 am 
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Wish there was an undo button on these posts, my last post (above) after reading again comes across a little too strong (sorry). I do care, and Hobie is probably not peaved at me.
Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:08 pm 
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I honestly don't think Hobie get too miffed by the various custom mods undertaken by many users - I mean, they even set up this forum section dedicated to it. I think the fact that Hobie themselves change features and models frequently (including concepts often first experimented with via end-user mods) suggests that they do plenty of tinkering of their own. Thats just the nature of boating and boaters I think. In the instance I described earlier, what the Hobie staffer was concerned about was that someone might try to do that modification and inadvertantly cause damage to the scuppers in the process, and I do see the point, which is why I made the comment.

That said, I did take the issue to a more senior member of staff and he didn't seem anywhere near as concerned by it - on the contrary, he wanted to know more about how it worked out. In any case, it was either fix it, or put in a warranty claim for a new hull (which may or may not have been honored, and probably didn't deserve to be as the damage was likely my own fault) and I decided to fix it, because, as previously mentioned, I was going to add reinforcing anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:05 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Gentlemen

Would it not be better to just dismiss the idea of the the scupper hole cart as a weak idea from Hobie and go back to the idea of a strapped down inline cart ,or 2 if needed in very tough terrain (especially with a potenially heavy boat like the TI with a full load)
Mounting 1 or 2 carts near to the center handles of the TI/Ai, depending on, the weight balance factor from our respective hulls?

Great idea to make a set of loose fittings more tight with add ons as more stability is needed to stop the slop on the fittings. Shortening the tubes and having a set of dual locks on a shortend top to cut down the strain (torque) factor to get these carts mounted under water is also highly needed.

(If you rattle over 75 feet of loose pebbles to get steeply home), you will realize shortly that using the scupper cart will eventualy rip your boat apart.

Yet, why risk the hull when a simple set of straps attached to a moveable cart is far easier to mount in the water, by a simple 90 degree 'flip-down' from the ocean (lake) and slide the craft onto the rails.

(WTF, am I being slow here?)

I doubt it. That standard idea of that cart has been used for years. It works. It has served me well for years with a 21' double sit-inside, an Innova Double Sunny 11', and this AI.

http://www.outdoorplay.com/Malone-Delux ... tegory=268

I agree, the ultimate aim of these forums is to get these well designed vessels just a 'wee bit better' :)

Yet sometimes it get as good as it gets without having to worry about tearing your boat apart reinventing the basic ubiquitous kayak cart....
imnsho.

If you want my scupper cart, pay the shipping and it's your's. (However, you've heard my warnings)

Regards
Fred

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Last edited by Trinomite on Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:04 pm 
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fusioneng

Well said, m8.

Josh, I agree, if it needs to be said here, it has to be spoken.

fusioneng, I wrote my piece before totally reading your piece (hint: please use spaces between your thoughts, it's easier to read.

In all honesty, unless the new kayak cart is a better idea than what has been proven and trusted for years by a lot of ppl, I surely hope Hobie has a far better idea...

There are all sorts of tweaks that can be done to the boat (as any boat) but when it comes down to getting a 'kayak' from land into the sea, it is pretty basic:
1) Get the boat into the water with minimal effort and maximum safety.
2( Get the boat back onto land with minimal effort and maximum safety.

For the crew, owner, and vessel.

Pretty basic, imo, it's not a job for NASA

Regards, friend
Fred

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Last edited by Trinomite on Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:56 pm 
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fusioneng wrote:
Wish there was an undo button on these posts, my last post (above) after reading again comes across a little too strong (sorry). I do care, and Hobie is probably not peaved at me.
Bob


Hey Bob there is an 'undo' button, on the bottom right of your post (delete button).
Yet you've made many good points as have many other ppl on this thread.

I would hate to have you hit that button!

It just wouldn't seem right as all points made here by everyone are very valid and hopefully will get the intended results from the staff whose pay cheques are highly dependent on us the 'happy' customers :wink:

Trinomite

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:26 pm 
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Quote:
Would it not be better to just dismiss the idea of the the scupper hole cart as a weak idea from Hobie and go back to the idea of a strapped down inline cart ,or 2 if needed in very tough terrain (especially with a potenially heavy boat like the TI with a full load)


No, that would be stupid to 'dismiss' the idea as a 'weak idea'. Add to this, scupper hole issues have only really become an issue with the TI. Until the TI arrived, scupper hole problems have always been few and far between.

I'm more interested in talking about perfecting the system (reinforced scupper tubes is all that is required after all), because using a plug-in cart is infinitely easier and simpler than a sit-on cart. So on the contrary... entertaining the idea of abandoning plug-in carts for sit on carts is what needs to be dismissed.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Yakass:
I agree with you 100%, I really like the scupper cart because it is small, light, and is easily stored upside down on the deck behind the rear seat.

There is nothing wrong with all the other designs that are rolling around, but many seem rather large, or complex, or very expensive, and some would be difficult to store. Another big factor is pretty much everyone owns a Hobie scupper cart (purchased with their boat) so there is nothing else to buy except a dollars worth of 1" class 40 PVC pipe and a little silicone or similar adhesive (or anything comparable for those not in the US).

It would actually be nice if Hobie sold a kit with the pipes, and a list of the correct lengths to cut pipe to length and the correct adhesive, pre- beveled at the top, that the user just measures, cuts, then slides in (same kit could be use on all Hobie Kayak models). Jim is very good at making instructional videos, and all of us have made the various repairs and upgrades with great ease. On some boats there is a mis-match at the top of the scupper holes, the instructions would state if this is the case, you simply push the tubes in until they stop so you don't have to modify the boat in any way.

I personally think if a kit like this was available at the Hobie dealer, I would have purchased it in a heartbeat, with all the hull problems I have seen and experienced.

I performed this scupper hole mod to all of our Hobies, it only takes a couple minutes and gives me piece of mind.

My opinion is if everyone just did the tubes in the scupper hole fix , the damaged hulls from scupper carts would go down to near zero.

In a perfect world I would like to see released for the TI an injection molded piece that slides over the existing HD or Trax II posts (similar in appearance to slaughter's and my designs( preferably as small as possible)), including a scupper hole re-enforcement kit, all of which would be a required purchase for TI owners to maintain warranty (from scupper hole damage) moving forward. Of course this wouldn't apply to those using external (non-scupper hole type carts). I'm sure whatever Hobie comes up with will be very good, and will for sure work like a charm.
Bob


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