Standard Hobie Sail Sizes

_________________
Raise your sail one foot, and you get ten feet of wind.
起你的一只帆，和你10英尺的。 -- Chinese Proverb
William D. Latinette @ Latrobe, PA, USA w. H14 Turbo X 2... [email protected]

What's so tough about measuring them yourself?

_________________
Sail Revolution
Join us on our new FB Page!

If you wanted an aftermarket sail, why would you care about the original?

Are you saying that I should visit a dealer and tell them, "I want to measure the sails on your H16, H17, H18..." ?

I'm describing having the sail sizes- like a diagram with dimensions- for the different Hobie family boats. This would allow someone to see and know how much modification would be needed to a particular sail- say a Prindle 16- to possibly make it work on their boat.

Maybe it wouldn't be used by too many people but it seems like a convenient dataset to have available here.

_________________
Raise your sail one foot, and you get ten feet of wind.
起你的一只帆，和你10英尺的。 -- Chinese Proverb
William D. Latinette @ Latrobe, PA, USA w. H14 Turbo X 2... [email protected]

Maybe I got a deal on a high-profile mainsail from another brand of cat and would like to see how feasible it would be to use on my H16, H14, etc.? It's not something that would happen everyday, but considering that this forum is read all over the world...

_________________
Raise your sail one foot, and you get ten feet of wind.
起你的一只帆，和你10英尺的。 -- Chinese Proverb
William D. Latinette @ Latrobe, PA, USA w. H14 Turbo X 2... [email protected]

The problem with the poll at the top of this thread is that it does not offer us the opportunity to select a box that says, "I approve of the way Hobie controls quality and maintains the one design nature of our classes and believe that Hobie should reap the benefit of the R&D work they've done to design and manufacture sails that are optimal for their boats". The poll is steeply slanted towards one agenda.

Hobies are designed to be ONE DESIGN sailboats. Fragmenting the classes with sails built by various manufacturers or even boat owners doing their own science projects chips away at that one design quality. Personnally, I wouldn't buy anything other than a class legal sail even if I didn't race. Hobie (or in the case of the 20, the Hobie liscensed contractor) builds top quality sails. I've been considering buying a good used 16 or 17. When I search through the classifieds, I don't consider boats without Hobie sails. Not only am I concerned about being class-legal, but having Hobie sails maintains resale value by making used boats marketable to a wider range of potential buyers.

From another perspective, Hobie sails are a product of the resources that the Hobie Cat company spent in the R&D effort necessary to design sails that are optimal for their boats. Why would anyone feel that Hobie should be compelled to share their proprietary designs? If you are determined to proceed down this path, like Jeremy said, measure a sail, get to work, knock yourself out.

_________________
Mark Van Doren
H16 Seabreeze #112205 (Richard Petty Signature Edition)
H14T Fantasia #47787
San Juan 28

Your points about the possible responses are valid. I should have predicted the desire for such an option based on previous discussions but seemingly cannot change or add now.

As far as sharing the proprietary, stating the simple sail dimensions without actual details of construction is not going to damage that, more a convenience for the few customers who might be interested in modifying a Hobie sail from another model to their uses.

_________________
Raise your sail one foot, and you get ten feet of wind.
起你的一只帆，和你10英尺的。 -- Chinese Proverb
William D. Latinette @ Latrobe, PA, USA w. H14 Turbo X 2... [email protected]

If I had a Prindle sail and wanted to use it on my H16, I think I'd just raise it as and accept that it'll have a different cut. You won't go class racing with it anyway, so what does it matter if the dimensions are a little different? However, you may find that the bolt ropes on the luff or foot of the sail are differerent in diameter and have to replace them so they'll fit in tracks in the mast and boom. You may have to replace the clew/tack plates as well so they'll accomodate the Hobie style outhaul line and gooseneck. I'm not familiar with Prindle systems so I don't know how compatible they'll be with a Hobie. But I'd focus on replacing hardware so you can attach the sail rather then try to recut it. That seems like a lot of effort for little gain.

_________________
Mark Van Doren
H16 Seabreeze #112205 (Richard Petty Signature Edition)
H14T Fantasia #47787
San Juan 28

No I think Jeremy was telling you (in the nicest possible way) that if you want the dimensions, then get the sails and measure them yourself - and keep the dealer out of it.


Whose "customers" are you referring to? Hobie Cat's customers are the dealers it sells boats to. The dealer's customers are the people that buy the new boats and accessories. I don't see either of these groups needing the sail diagrams.

What benefit would they gain by providing these diagrams? None that would pay the bills. Why would they do this? If it doesn't translate into more sales, then it's not going to get done.

The only people that would benefit from this would be sailmakers - who would relish having Hobie Cat do the grunt work for them - at no cost.

Pretty much sums it up.

What you're asking for could be likened to calling up Ford and asking them if the rear axle on some old Chevy will bolt up to your Mustang. I wouldn't expect anything less than a "how the hell should we know?" response.

Seriously, the data you're asking for really isn't that hard to get. Take out a tape measure and measure the length of your mast, boom, etc and do some homework to see if the sails you're looking at will fit. Or make friends with local Hobie sailors and measure their sails. This is the kind of thing that you have to do when making things custom.

Hobie is in business to make money, and part of the way they (or any company for that matter) does that is by not publicly sharing propriatery information.

sm

Actually, what I'm saying, is for a couple a hundred bucks, I'll hold the dumb end of the tape.

_________________
Sail Revolution
Join us on our new FB Page!

Hobie's doing it just fine as it is. If you do have a 14, 16 and 18 measure them yourself like everyone else suggests you do, read some books and start stitching. Sound more like you may be looking to make some sales (sails) to other people.

_________________
Buxton
18' T16 Silent Lightning (16' T2 Hybrid)
11' H16 White Lightning
79' H16 Green Lightning

_________________
Raise your sail one foot, and you get ten feet of wind.
起你的一只帆，和你10英尺的。 -- Chinese Proverb
William D. Latinette @ Latrobe, PA, USA w. H14 Turbo X 2... [email protected]

If Hobie started giving away their proprietary designs to their competitiors they wouldn't be The Hobie Cat Company for long. The sailboat business, or any other leisure oriented business, can't be easy in a recession (not sure we ever came out of the last one). Any business that wants to continue as a going concern must pay attention to the bottom line.

_________________
Mark Van Doren
H16 Seabreeze #112205 (Richard Petty Signature Edition)
H14T Fantasia #47787
San Juan 28

wildlatin :
I design and make most of my own sails, it's a heck of a lot of work and engineering, and very easy to get it wrong. I only do it because it's part of my hobby and I like using my hands and mind designing and making stuff (I'm a design engineer and master craftsman). I've designed and built many things just for the fun of it ( helicopters, racing hydroplanes, an airplane, many race cars, etc) all just for the fun of it.

If I counted my engineering time and labor hours, my own sails cost me triple what a commercial sail costs. Thats not including the $40k computer system I design on and the very expensive sewing equipment needed to sew sails (my Pfaff machine was around $2k), plus the huge layout area and tables required.

If I had to guess I would estimate 75% of a sails cost is the cost of the sailcloth and raw materials, unless you plant your own dacron trees in your yard and grow your own( LOL) and get a loom, you can't work around that cost. I read every book I could find on sail design for a year or two before attempting to make my first sail.

However if this interests you as a hobby there are several places to start.

A company called Sailrite has very good instructional videos and sell pre-cut panels and designs that you can make yourself. ( http://www.sailritesails.com/videoselections.aspx ) They also sell all the materials.

There are free sail design programs available on the web (just google sailcut CAD) or go to this link ( http://www.sailcut.com/Sailcut_CAD). Most local colleges offer engineering programs in fluid dynamics if you really want to get into it, many colleges offer degree programs on the subject. You could offer to intern at a sail shop, but I would think you would need a formal engineering education prior just so you can do and understand the math and concepts (tons of math involved). Otherwise you will end up being a gopher and delivery driver for them. Hope this helps you.
Bob